Josh Candiotti
New member
All 3 of these you want to be as close as possible to zero is that correct?
Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonia?
- Thread starter Josh Candiotti
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shuguley
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During your cycle, all 3 will be all over the place.
You will know your cycle is over when all three equal zero.
Once you add livestock, your ammonia and nitrite should always be zero. Nitrates may go up, many people run healthy systems with nitrates around 20 I think. My aquarium finished cycling over 2 months ago and everything is still zero.
Ammonia is the most deadly to fish. Nitrites and Nitrates are only toxic to fish a super high levels.
High nitrites and nitrates can be bad for invertebrates and high nitrates can lead to nuisance algae.
You will know your cycle is over when all three equal zero.
Once you add livestock, your ammonia and nitrite should always be zero. Nitrates may go up, many people run healthy systems with nitrates around 20 I think. My aquarium finished cycling over 2 months ago and everything is still zero.
Ammonia is the most deadly to fish. Nitrites and Nitrates are only toxic to fish a super high levels.
High nitrites and nitrates can be bad for invertebrates and high nitrates can lead to nuisance algae.
Josh Candiotti
New member
Great Info Thanks
loosecannon
New member
Nitrite is as bad as Ammonia. As far Nitrate it depends on what you what to keep in your tank.
shuguley
New member
Nitrite is nowhere near as bad as ammonia, not even close.
Read this reefkeeping magazine article by Randy Holmes-Farley
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php
Read this reefkeeping magazine article by Randy Holmes-Farley
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php
loosecannon
New member
Shuguley Nitrite is just as bad as ammonia just kills your fishes in different way!
Listen to shuguley. Nitrite is not as bad as ammonia. Obviously in high enough concentrations it can be toxic to marine vertebrates, but that's not something you're generally going to see in a marine tank. Now, the presence of detectable levels of nitrite is never a good thing because it generally means the tank has either not cycled or there is something else going on that should raise concern.
shuguley
New member
loosecannon, (wow, that name really fits)
Did you even read the article I posted? I guess everybody has two choices... we can believe you (occupation - Helping o. j. find the real killers!, 5 years experience, 2 years on this board and no research) or we can believe Randy Holmes-Farley, (a chemist with 10 years reef experience and 7 years on this board who has actually researched the subject in detail).... hmmmmmm. I think I'll choose to believe Randy Holmes-Farley.
Did you even read the article I posted? I guess everybody has two choices... we can believe you (occupation - Helping o. j. find the real killers!, 5 years experience, 2 years on this board and no research) or we can believe Randy Holmes-Farley, (a chemist with 10 years reef experience and 7 years on this board who has actually researched the subject in detail).... hmmmmmm. I think I'll choose to believe Randy Holmes-Farley.
abulgin
Premium Member
As stated, Ammonia is the killer, the thing to watch closely. Nitrite is a non-issue. I don't even test for it. It would almost be impossible for nitrite to build up to the levels in a SW tank necessary to impact animals. Nitrate should be below 20 ppm, and if you're keeping a reef it should be as close to 0 as possible.
When your cycle is finished, your nitrate will not be 0 as stated above. It will be pretty high, which is why you'll want to do some water changes. Over time, if you have sufficient live rock and you do regular water changes, the nitrate should come down.
When your cycle is finished, your nitrate will not be 0 as stated above. It will be pretty high, which is why you'll want to do some water changes. Over time, if you have sufficient live rock and you do regular water changes, the nitrate should come down.
I agree with the above posts ammonia is the harmful agent, Nitrite is not a worry. Nitrate can cause corals to brown up by inducing too much zooxanthelae and is along with nitrite and ammonia a fuel for nuissance algae.
In a cylcing tank you will see ammonia first. Bacteria thay consume it leave nitrite as a by product, Next the bacteria that consume nitrite leave nitrate as a by product. Nitrate is then consumed by another group of bactertia that live in the anoxic(loxygen poor) areas of the rock and/or sand and produce free and harmless lnitrogen.
In a cylcing tank you will see ammonia first. Bacteria thay consume it leave nitrite as a by product, Next the bacteria that consume nitrite leave nitrate as a by product. Nitrate is then consumed by another group of bactertia that live in the anoxic(loxygen poor) areas of the rock and/or sand and produce free and harmless lnitrogen.
loosecannon
New member
Long term exposure to levels of between 0.2 to 0.5 mg/litre are damaging to fishes and invertebrates, with some secies not bing able to withsand levels above 0.1 mg/litre Quantities higher then this are lethal! When a fish is suffering from nitrite poisoning it will swim around with folded fins clearly displaying breathing difficulties, which can be identified by the increased rate of gill movement. The fish is in FACT, suffocating becuse the excess nitrite in the water causes its blood haemoglobin to change to methhaemoglobin !
Are you talking about freshwater or saltwater fish, loosecannon, and what is your reference?
loosecannon
New member
Saltwater. Vincent B. Hargreaves.
shuguley
New member
Did you have a private conversation with the guy? How's about a book name and page number, or at least a web link, or something. There are many resources that completely disagree with what you are saying, including the link I provided a few posts above.
I did a google search on your guy and he has written books on freshwater and saltwater. It's possible, if he did indeed say what you are claiming about saltwater fish, that he simply translated his freshwater knowledge to saltwater, which is a common mistake people make.
If you do your research, you will find that salt is actually used as a treatment for nitrite poising in freshwater fish, because it helps in preventing methemoglobin from building up. This is why Nitrite is not very important to worry about in saltwater.
loosecannon
New member
Shuguley, Nitrates will NEVER be O ! Then you say people run health system around 20 . How about much higher . Even if you were right NOT! Ammonia and nitrites go up and down with each other so if you have Nitrites you have Ammonia to!
Lets clear this up.
Free ammonia is toxic and will permanently damage fish and other living things. .Ammonia bound to organics is ammonium and is much less toxic but can easily turn into free ammonia in certain conditions.
Nitrite is toxic to freshwater fish . It is not a problem in marine fish because of the abundance of chloride in the water
Nitrate will fuel nuisance algae along with phosphate. It will also fuel excessive zooxanthelae(the symbiotic algae in coral) which leads to browning and some say slowed growth due to the zooxanthelae potentialy outcompeting the host coral for carbon sources.
Free ammonia is toxic and will permanently damage fish and other living things. .Ammonia bound to organics is ammonium and is much less toxic but can easily turn into free ammonia in certain conditions.
Nitrite is toxic to freshwater fish . It is not a problem in marine fish because of the abundance of chloride in the water
Nitrate will fuel nuisance algae along with phosphate. It will also fuel excessive zooxanthelae(the symbiotic algae in coral) which leads to browning and some say slowed growth due to the zooxanthelae potentialy outcompeting the host coral for carbon sources.
PS Nitrate levels should be kept as low as possible as should phosphate but it is important to note that living things need some to survive. How much is the issue. As a practical matter it is very unlikely that levels of nitrates and phosphate can be kept low enough in an aquarium even with aggressive removal to create a concern over too little.This is especially so in an aqaurium with fish since foods will bring and waste will bring in plenty of nitrate and phosphate.
Saltwater. Vincent B. Hargreaves.
I think that you will find that if he in fact asserts nitrite to be a substantial toxicity concern for marine organisms, he is incorrect. I know he writes books for beginners, but in them he may just be repeating the often made mistake of extrapolating freshwater data to marine situations. I've not seen any published data supporting its toxicity, and plenty supporting that it is not.
I think that you will find that if he in fact asserts nitrite to be a substantial toxicity concern for marine organisms, he is incorrect. I know he writes books for beginners, but in them he may just be repeating the often made mistake of extrapolating freshwater data to marine situations. I've not seen any published data supporting its toxicity, and plenty supporting that it is not.
