Nitrate question.........

[N_Jones]

Ok here is the setup........

New tank 55 gal.
60 lbs of LS
Aprox. 56 lbs of LR
Aqua-Tech 30-60 HOB filter using carbon and filter material
Seaclone 100 skimmer
2 MJ 900 PH's
48" 4x54w 10000k T5's 460nm Actinics and Lunars (Nova Extreme)


Tank has been up and running for 2 weeks now. I started the cycle with a frozen shrimp. Left it in for about 4 days... AM spiked and went to 0, Nitrites spiked and went to 0, Nitrates have leveled off at 40 for about the last 4 or 5 days...... Also did a 10% WC yesterday. Checked params before and after. All readings the same. I intend on getting some of the cleaning crew this weekend. Hermits, Snails, and Shrimp.......

I guess my question is this. Should the Nitrates come down on their own or is there something I need to do to get them to come down?

Water Params:
Temp - 80.2 - 80.4
SG/ppt - 1.026/35
Ph - 8.2
AM - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40
Alk - 3.5 mEq/l

Those params have been steady for 4 or 5 days now.

 

[papagimp]

Nitrates will only come down if you remove them manually (de-nitrate reactor, water changes, ect. ect.) or naturally (deep sand bed, other means of anerobic bacteria). They typically will continue to rise without one of these thigns happening.

FYI, I made a seaclone 150 work extremely well for my 55g tank, but the 100 I tried, didn't do crap for it, just not big enough, I modded the 100 I have severely and still it just doesn't keep up or skim well enough.

Your lighting is excellent for that tank, butyou'll definatly want to up the flow in the tank. I have 3 x Koralia #1's + a 700gph return pump and a HOB filter on my 55g. a koralia #1 pushes 400gph vs a MJ900 which dose about half that.

Also, you stand a better chance of keeping nitrates lowered if you double the rock you currently have in that tank. 56lbs would be the bare minimum to filter a normal to lightly stocked 55g.

 

[Aquarist007]

Yes the nitrates should come down on their own. You are only two weeks into a cycle that takes about 4-6 weeks normally.
The live rock will have dead material etc on it/in it that contributes to the increased nitrates--eventually this material is converted and the nitrates will go down.
Normally you do not need to add anything to start cycling--it comes from the live rock/sand
If the nitrates are still high at the 4 week period I would do a 20 percent water change---check and then add invertebrates(cleanup crew)

 

[jer77]

[welcome]

Hi Noel, It sometimes takes a little longer for the nitrates to go down. What kind of filter media are you using in the filter though? Biological filter media may be the cause of your nitrate problem. The LR and LS is all you need. Carbon is a good idea too so keep that going. You can try and mod your seaclone to get better performance too.

 

[papagimp]

I'll try to explain again, since I feel this is an imporant lesson for newbies to be aware of. Live rock and live sand is all you need for biological filtration, but nitrates DO NOT GO DOWN ON THEIR OWN!, fact people, you will have to have some form of nitrate exportation or they will continue to rise.

Capn, after the tank has cmpleted the cycle and the die off from the rock as stopped, nitrates will not go down, there will simply be less nitrates being added to the water. 20% water change would be a form of nitrate exportation as well.

Jer, The reason it takes a little longer for nitrates to go down, is due to the time it takes to properly accumulate enough anerobic bacteria in the tank. Without anerobic bacteria or water changes, the nitrates will continue to rise. Aerobic bacteria, which we use to filter ammonia and nitrite doesn't do crap for the nitrates.

(cap and Jer, the explanation were for N Jones benefit, I'll assume you both know most of this already)

Jones, Jer's comment about the filter media is a good one to listen too, probably not the case here since it's such a new tank and just getting past the cycling point. Expect some nitrates until the tank stabalizes a tad more. This can take anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. And as Capn mentioned, perform water changes as needed (20% is usually sufficient at a given time) to battle the nitrates until either the bacteria needed is there or until you find an alternate method for nitrate removal.

You didn't list in your parameters there, but do you check for calcium levels as well? This is another imporatnt, if not one of the more imporatnt water parameters to be aware of, moreso when dealing with corals but can effect alk if CA is not correct, and this can effect PH, which can hurt the fish.

 

[N_Jones]

The filter material is just some generic type....... I can't remember the brand but it's blue on one side and white on the other. It came in a 30" piece cut to fit kind of deal.

My seaclone I got used from a friend. It took some work but I think it's working ok. I've been getting about 1/2 cup of foam every day or so. I've decided skimming is an art form........ lol

I do plan on adding more cured LR as I get a chance or at least when I see a nice piece at my LFS.

It has been pretty cool so far watching the tank come to life. I spotted this little creature crawling around on the rock last night......

There are at least 2 of those running around and I spotted a tan one with white oval looking spots on it's back. Also I'm guessing the white/clear feathery looking things being whisked around the water column are copepods...... So I guess so far so good.......

 

[N_Jones]

The test kit I purchased didn't have the test for calcium in it I am going to the LFS to get the test kit for that this weekend......

Oh and I was planning 10% WC's weekly.......... sound ok?

 

[papagimp]

About the filter material, it's not the material itself, it's how the material works. You get lot's of beneficial aerobic bacteria to grow on filter material of all types, anything porous, heck even non porous. having lot's of this bacteria around the tank will keep the anerobic areas from effectivly dealing with the nitrates, so minimize the biological filter materia from the Aquatech, keep the carbon filters and whanot, just keep em changed often, and clean them at a minimum of once a week, clean em good. Using tap water to rinse em well, will kill off the bacteria colonizing on it, this will be good since you want the bacteria on the rock and sand instead. Cleaning all the different media and sponges out will also keep detritus (gunk and poop and stuff) from accumulating and causing a rise in nitrates.

If the seaclone is doing that well for you, than it may be fine. Definatly an art form, lol, moreso with the seaclones since it's a very fine and touchy adjustment nozzle. Once you figure out where to set it, than you'll be able to duplicate that easily with little effort.

I'm guessing that the photo is a stometella. At least I think it is, hard to tell. if it looks like a slug with a little pad on the back, that's a stometella snail. Very good critters to have in your tank. And they come in all sorts of colors too, got me one that's pepsi can blue colored.

10% water changes are typical and just fine, but since you are running a seaclone (I speak from personal experience) you may wanna up it to about 15%. Just to be on the safe side. If the skimmer starts kicking in nicely and continues to give at least 1/2 cup a day, then 10% will suffice.

 

[N_Jones]

Thanks for the info on the filter.......

I'm surprised that the picture came out as good as it did, my camera is not well suited for taking pictures of the stuff in the tank it wants to focus on the glass........

 

[papagimp]

It takes practice with the camera's, no matter how good or poor the unit may be, lol. Compare this photo with the critter you've seen, if it's like this, than definatly a stometella (sorry, I just love showing this photo, such a nice color morph, and since finding, they've been breeding and spreading so that I see all differnt colors now)

 

[N_Jones]

The 3 I've seen so far look just like that..... woohoo! 2 of them are greenish and the other is tan with white spots.......

Here's a pic of my setup so far........

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10192965#post10192965 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by papagimp
I'll try to explain again, since I feel this is an imporant lesson for newbies to be aware of. Live rock and live sand is all you need for biological filtration, but nitrates DO NOT GO DOWN ON THEIR OWN!, fact people, you will have to have some form of nitrate exportation or they will continue to rise.

Capn, after the tank has cmpleted the cycle and the die off from the rock as stopped, nitrates will not go down, there will simply be less nitrates being added to the water. 20% water change would be a form of nitrate exportation as well.

Jer, The reason it takes a little longer for nitrates to go down, is due to the time it takes to properly accumulate enough anerobic bacteria in the tank. Without anerobic bacteria or water changes, the nitrates will continue to rise. Aerobic bacteria, which we use to filter ammonia and nitrite doesn't do crap for the nitrates.

(cap and Jer, the explanation were for N Jones benefit, I'll assume you both know most of this already)

Jones, Jer's comment about the filter media is a good one to listen too, probably not the case here since it's such a new tank and just getting past the cycling point. Expect some nitrates until the tank stabalizes a tad more. This can take anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. And as Capn mentioned, perform water changes as needed (20% is usually sufficient at a given time) to battle the nitrates until either the bacteria needed is there or until you find an alternate method for nitrate removal.

You didn't list in your parameters there, but do you check for calcium levels as well? This is another imporatnt, if not one of the more imporatnt water parameters to be aware of, moreso when dealing with corals but can effect alk if CA is not correct, and this can effect PH, which can hurt the fish.

thanks for the detailed info ---but don't nitrates eventually go down because the final stepin the nitrogen cycle is that nitrogen gas is produced which bubbles off into the atmosphere?

 

[papagimp]

Actually Capn, it goes like this, bacteria converts the ammonia into nitrite, the nitrites than get converted into nitrate by the same bacteria, the nitrates however will need anerobic bacteria to convert them into nitrogen gas. I think some is converted through other natural processes but not sufficient to cause a decrease in nitrates. Most people see a decline in nitrates after time because they do water changes and regulate the nutient import on their tank. But you are correct, nitrogen gas bubbling out of the system is the final step, just doesn't happen with aerobic bacteria.

 

[wink1906]

Paga, would adding some cheato to the sump help?

 

[Aquarist007]

water changes are the best and first thing I would do. Next I would grow xenia coral--easy, considered a weed but great consumers of nitrates.
Cheato is usually adced to a refug?? is that what you meant--and the flow rated is so restricted through a fuge that you can't count on alot of nitrates being reduced that way