Nitrate Reduction 101 with sugar!!!
- Thread starter fishykid9212
- Start date
spineshank385
New member
IMO, this whole carbon source thing should be more of a "holy crap look at my no3, its 500 million ppm! i need to bring it down now!" kind of thing rather than a "lets add sugar so we can permanently keep our no3 low" kind of thing.
A quick fix in case something goes wrong. I think there are better ways to control no3 over the long term, chaeto comes to mind.
A quick fix in case something goes wrong. I think there are better ways to control no3 over the long term, chaeto comes to mind.
Ryanqk
Active member
Why do some people get angry over stupid things like this. Its not bad that some people are experimenting to find better aquarium keeping techniques. Just becuase you have been in the hobby for a long time and may know alot about reef keeping does not make you infallible. If sugar dosing works eventually it may become as common as the additives we pump in our tanks all the time, who knows. But some people need to learn to cool it ! we are all trying to do the same thing here, keep marine creatures as healthy as we can and get some enjoyment out of it . Fish are supposed to make you relax, not fired up so take a chill pill.
Ryan
Ryan
I agree with the post right above, take a chill pill.
It seems that some people are willing to try things, and if and when they work, the people who are scared to try them get aggravated, b/c they feel that are doing more work to get the same end product. Which essentually they are, but thats their choice.
Incidently I tried the sugar dosing and it worked great. I will do it from time to time when my nitrates get high. I actually feel it has been very helpful to my tank b/c I can feed my fish more. They are healthier and fatter and I am sure they appreciate receiving the right amount of food, rather than every other day feedings or even (gasp) once a week feedings as some people do. Which is unhealthier starving your fish to keep nitrates down or adding some natural sugar to your tank.
I thank fishykid for everything, he/she really helped me out.
It seems that some people are willing to try things, and if and when they work, the people who are scared to try them get aggravated, b/c they feel that are doing more work to get the same end product. Which essentually they are, but thats their choice.
Incidently I tried the sugar dosing and it worked great. I will do it from time to time when my nitrates get high. I actually feel it has been very helpful to my tank b/c I can feed my fish more. They are healthier and fatter and I am sure they appreciate receiving the right amount of food, rather than every other day feedings or even (gasp) once a week feedings as some people do. Which is unhealthier starving your fish to keep nitrates down or adding some natural sugar to your tank.
I thank fishykid for everything, he/she really helped me out.
fishykid9212
New member
Thanks for the fine comments. I am a he
DaveBrader
Registered Member
I don't think this should be moved to the chemistry forum. I think this is more of a reef discussion than it is chemistry. It may have started out about chemistry, but it has evolved into a discussion about husbandry not chemistry.
When I first started in this hobby, I had someone at an LFS tell me the only way to get my PH stable was to use PH UP, a product he sold in 6 oz bottles for $7.95 .. LMAO, Man was I ****ed off when I found out it was nothing more than baking soda mixed with RO Water .........
There is nothing wrong with this discussion or with the experimentation that started it. If it was not for people willing to try things, this hobby might not even exist... Some of the methods used today to create some of the beautiful aquariums we have did not even exist ten years ago. Everything evolves. The big recirc skimmers in use today would not even exist if people were satisfied with the status quo. The lighting we use is the result of someone experimenting with different phosphors.
And most of all, adding a carbon sourse works to help bring down excessive nitrates, and I agree it is a much better alternative than starving my livestock for two or three weeks waiting for nitrates to come down so I can feed the livestock again...
Dave
When I first started in this hobby, I had someone at an LFS tell me the only way to get my PH stable was to use PH UP, a product he sold in 6 oz bottles for $7.95 .. LMAO, Man was I ****ed off when I found out it was nothing more than baking soda mixed with RO Water .........
There is nothing wrong with this discussion or with the experimentation that started it. If it was not for people willing to try things, this hobby might not even exist... Some of the methods used today to create some of the beautiful aquariums we have did not even exist ten years ago. Everything evolves. The big recirc skimmers in use today would not even exist if people were satisfied with the status quo. The lighting we use is the result of someone experimenting with different phosphors.
And most of all, adding a carbon sourse works to help bring down excessive nitrates, and I agree it is a much better alternative than starving my livestock for two or three weeks waiting for nitrates to come down so I can feed the livestock again...
Dave
DaveBrader
Registered Member
The latest greatest thing that everyone is talking about are the Sulphur based denitrators... Would someone please explain to me how using those is a more natural method of husbandry than adding a little sugar to their tank....?????????
From the reading I have done, the Sulphur based denitrators have the potential of destroying a tank much quicker than adding a little sugar can...
Dave
From the reading I have done, the Sulphur based denitrators have the potential of destroying a tank much quicker than adding a little sugar can...
Dave
Peter Eichler
New member
I can't think of a single thing in this hobby that wasn't in use in some form 10 years ago...
Peter Eichler
New member
Greatest, that's up for debate. Latest, absolutely not, been around for many years just like dosing sugar/carbon. Do you have a link to some of the new desugn denitrators, I haven't seen any recently?
mattsilvester
Team RC
Like I said before, I (personally) would not use any so called "artificial" method to reduce nitrates. I value my nitrate too much as a barometer to gauge the general condition of my system. In my mind, it is like the aquarium's speedometer........ if you tamper with the speedometer on your car, how do you know when your breaking the speed limit..... likewise with an aquarium.
And secondly, when you use water changes to remove nitrate, it is nopt just nitrate you are removing...... you are removing a whole lot more contaminants that we don't even test for, as well as replenishing trace elements.
Take two tanks.... tank 1 and tank 2. Now in my mind, if tank 1 is an average size tank with low stock and a good filter, then your nitrates will "naturally" be low, hence you need to do alot less maintenance in general. If you have the same tank, but double the livestock and feeding etc but filters etc are identical, then your nitrates will be higher, hence you will need to do more maintenance. Now if you target nitrates in tank 2 by dosing with sugar, or using a denitrator, you might well end up with less nitrate than you do in tank 1. So, if you are basing your maintenance on your nitrate reading, then does it make sense that you are doing more maintenace on the tank with the lower stocking level? The critical point here is that water changes and other maintenance do alot more than just keep nitrate in check. So how do you gauge what is, and is not enough maintenance if you don't use the usua yard stick to gauge it?
Just as a note, this is meant to be read as much as a query as it is a statement, and is by no means a comment meaning "I think sugar is a stupid idea". I am open to be convinced otherwise, after all it is what this hobby is about....find new and better ways to care for our animals. I just want to know more about this in general......
Regards,
Matt
And secondly, when you use water changes to remove nitrate, it is nopt just nitrate you are removing...... you are removing a whole lot more contaminants that we don't even test for, as well as replenishing trace elements.
Take two tanks.... tank 1 and tank 2. Now in my mind, if tank 1 is an average size tank with low stock and a good filter, then your nitrates will "naturally" be low, hence you need to do alot less maintenance in general. If you have the same tank, but double the livestock and feeding etc but filters etc are identical, then your nitrates will be higher, hence you will need to do more maintenance. Now if you target nitrates in tank 2 by dosing with sugar, or using a denitrator, you might well end up with less nitrate than you do in tank 1. So, if you are basing your maintenance on your nitrate reading, then does it make sense that you are doing more maintenace on the tank with the lower stocking level? The critical point here is that water changes and other maintenance do alot more than just keep nitrate in check. So how do you gauge what is, and is not enough maintenance if you don't use the usua yard stick to gauge it?
Just as a note, this is meant to be read as much as a query as it is a statement, and is by no means a comment meaning "I think sugar is a stupid idea". I am open to be convinced otherwise, after all it is what this hobby is about....find new and better ways to care for our animals. I just want to know more about this in general......
Regards,
Matt
DaveBrader
Registered Member
Excuse me, everything you do in your aquarium is "artificial", the entire environment is a re-creation of the ocean.....even the foods we feed our systems are not "natural". As pointed out by Mr. Eichler, all of these methods seem to have been around during his 19 years experience. So nothing new is going on here. It is just a cycle of recycling different methods over and over again. The popularity of what method is being used just changes from generation to generation then I suppose. The sulphur based denitrators are being touted as something new, so someone like me who has only been in this hobby a few years, reads about something like this being used in Europe, and gaining popularity here looks at it as something new.
Here is an example of an advertisement on sulphur denitrators.
"Check out the new Korallin re-circulating models. These are based around the 1501 reactor and combine sulphur media with calceous media to offer a serious level of Nitrate removal. We have had one of these running for the last three months on one of the new farms systems and the recirculation method seems far more efficient than simple single pass pods. As it includes reactor media the pH is fully buffered and enriched with calcium before being returned to the tank."
Someone new to this hobby could easily take this to mean it is something new......
No one here is saying sugar should be used as regular maintenance. All that is being said is that in certain situations, sugar can be used to lower high nitrates quickly when it is warranted... I do not understand why it is being twisted and argued against as an "artificial" means of lowering nitrates by replacing other methods that are more "natural". Even water changes are not totally "natural". Unless of couse you can show me someone who mixes up fresh batches of saltwater that is used to replace ocean water drained off the worlds oceans when it becomes dirty. The bottom line is, that everything we do to maintain water quality in our systems is an artifical means of accomplishing something that naturally occurs in the oceans due strictly to the volume of water in the oceans.. There is no "natural" way to accomplish this in a closed artificial evironment such as our aquariums.
Dave
Here is an example of an advertisement on sulphur denitrators.
"Check out the new Korallin re-circulating models. These are based around the 1501 reactor and combine sulphur media with calceous media to offer a serious level of Nitrate removal. We have had one of these running for the last three months on one of the new farms systems and the recirculation method seems far more efficient than simple single pass pods. As it includes reactor media the pH is fully buffered and enriched with calcium before being returned to the tank."
Someone new to this hobby could easily take this to mean it is something new......
No one here is saying sugar should be used as regular maintenance. All that is being said is that in certain situations, sugar can be used to lower high nitrates quickly when it is warranted... I do not understand why it is being twisted and argued against as an "artificial" means of lowering nitrates by replacing other methods that are more "natural". Even water changes are not totally "natural". Unless of couse you can show me someone who mixes up fresh batches of saltwater that is used to replace ocean water drained off the worlds oceans when it becomes dirty. The bottom line is, that everything we do to maintain water quality in our systems is an artifical means of accomplishing something that naturally occurs in the oceans due strictly to the volume of water in the oceans.. There is no "natural" way to accomplish this in a closed artificial evironment such as our aquariums.
Dave
Peter Eichler
New member
Here's some reading some of you may find interesting.
http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/SulphurDenitrator.htm
http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/SulphurDenitrator.htm
Peter,
Have you tried the sulphur method? Had success?
We tried a DIY project of a sulphur reactor years ago. The thing worked but it smelled like rotten eggs. Is there a way to contain the smell? Is there somewhere to get "non-smelly" (for lack of a better word) sulphur?
The sulphur had no ill effects to our aquarium, but it certainly had ill effects to our noses.
Have you tried the sulphur method? Had success?
We tried a DIY project of a sulphur reactor years ago. The thing worked but it smelled like rotten eggs. Is there a way to contain the smell? Is there somewhere to get "non-smelly" (for lack of a better word) sulphur?
The sulphur had no ill effects to our aquarium, but it certainly had ill effects to our noses.
DaveBrader
Registered Member
Great Article Peter.... and it just goes to prove the point, that no matter how long something has been around, it can still be new to new hobbyists...
Apparently the sulphur method has been proven effective for years, and yet there are still those who question it as well. In the end apparently it is part of this hobby to experiment for ones self, and find a method that suits not only our artificial environment we are creating, but it must also suit our individual technical abilities and our pocket books.
Consequently, argument among hobbyists will never end.. LMAO
Dave
Apparently the sulphur method has been proven effective for years, and yet there are still those who question it as well. In the end apparently it is part of this hobby to experiment for ones self, and find a method that suits not only our artificial environment we are creating, but it must also suit our individual technical abilities and our pocket books.
Consequently, argument among hobbyists will never end.. LMAO
Dave
fishykid9212
New member
Hey guys, if you don't want to try the sugar, I would definately try making a coil denitrator. I have talked to people and they swear by them. I was actually going to make one until I found out about the sugar.
Heres some info if interested
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/nitratecontrol/a/aa092702.htm
Heres some info if interested
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/nitratecontrol/a/aa092702.htm
affan
In Memoriam
Well, I've been dosing sugar every other day for 2 weeks now. 1 full table spoon for 280 gallons of TWV. Nitrates have gone down from 20 ppm to less than 5 ppm, and I am not sure if this is at all related to the sugar dosing, but the tank water now looks extremely clear and hair algae is disappearing. FWIW.
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