No coral growth

[DNA]

Instead of describing my tank in details I'd like your ideas of everything that may cause sustained little or no growth of SPS corals.

These usually stay at the size I get them and then start to turn white at the base after several months and die eventually.
An extreme example is a one inch branch of birdsnest I kept without any growth for two years untill I lost the frag due to it's small size.

I'm now at the end of the line in series of tests I've been doing with the tank for at least two years now so I'm looking for some fresh winds to take me somewhere I've not been before.
I did keep these corals successfully for a few years untill my tank sprung a tiny leak that had to be fixed. The temporary storage killed a portion of my corals and I've not been able to get it into good shape ever since.

Please don't ask me for more info for now, but take another look at the question in the first paragraph and post your thoughts.

 

[moo0o]

Have any algae problems? I've read that high po4 inhibits growth.

Check your calcium and alk levels, my corals stop or slow down growth when my calcium is below 370.

From what i remember corals that start to turn white at the base usually means low alk.

 

[dots]

Not feeding enough.

 

[acrylic_300]

With zero growth in two years...I'd have to say your parameters are off and you don't have enough light and flow.

This will be anyone's guess...I think a birdnest would grow in about any circumstance other than very high nutrient. Now if your SG is like 1.020 that's another story. It's anyone's guess.

 

[29reef]

DNA- do you keep other corals than SPS in your tank? As I understand it the new frags that you get keep their color but do no grow at all. Is this true for all types of sps? I would guess that there is a limiting factor in your corals ability to produce food(leading to growth) for themselves. So that could include but not limited to elements(ca,alk,mg,p,k,etc),salinity, light, water movement, amino acids and other such things that would fall under "food". I would go from top to bottom in basic coral care. OR it's some sort of outside predator or toxin that would cause this. Again the list of possible options is very long. I would like to hear more about this problem as well as photos if possible.

Is this a different tank than the ~300? gal totm that you had?

 

[sps1206]

#1 Make sure your using RO/DI, if you arent, that could be a major factor. Test your calcium and magnesium right away. Get those upto par. Start doing weekly 20% water changes with a high quality salt. If you have algae in the tank, you may need to do a few large changes at first. Change your bulbs if they need to be.

Also, I notice that sometimes when my calcium gets low in my tank and I get it back to par, above 400ppm, I get sudden growth and color spurts in my corals.

 

[DNA]

Thanks guys for your replies.
I took a few shots this morning.

Here is the tank in december 2005, 3,5 years ago.
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Here is the tank today.
Lost my anemonies and montis, but the rest is more and less still there if you look closely. Come to think of it all my corals have unimpressive growth rate though they still survive and the SPS simply die.
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Here are 3 frags I got exactly 4 months ago. They have grown for like 1/4 of an inch, but are declining for an unknown reson.
Notice that brown diatom like algae.
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This coral I forgot the name of can be seen in the 2005 picture towards the top at the same 3-4 inches it's now at.
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If you are still reading here is some of the story.

Tank sprung a leak about 3 years ago and had to be emptied for 3 days. Portion of the corals died and things start to move downhill.

Shortly after I got Red Planaria flatworms in huge numbers. Flatworm Exit is illegal here so no cure was available for a long time.
It was my belief the dieoff from the massive population of these flatworms kept my tank hostage because they release toxins when they die.
I did get my hands on Flatworm Exit 1-2 years ago. Even though I did a good job of following the instructions the dead flatworms polluted my tank to a degree I lost more corals and a few fish.
I found out about Levacide about a year ago and have been using it monthly to kill the flatworms because only about 99% of them die each time.

About a year ago I moved everything to the sump, blasted all the detrius off the rocks and replaced all the sand and 66% of all the water. Tank looked better for a few weeks then it was back to the same.

Heat gets sometimes high in the summer, but that does not explain the situation for the rest of the year.

I am growing algae in the sump and it grows pretty fast. I'm pruning like a bucket of it every month. Also I have the algae from hell. Bryopsis has been in the tank since I started this hobby and it's not going away. The Kent magnesium stuff is not available here so I wen't for the Epsom salts and dosed it to the required levels with some results, but far from doing any permanent good. The brown algae you see in the frag picture appeared right after and has been in the tank for about 10 months.
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It's around 1400 litre (350g) system
SG is at 25
Temp 26-29°C (78-84F)
Calcium is at 440
Ph is 8.2
Nitrate is less than 5
Only 7 fish for low bio load.
30% water changes monthly.
Skimmer and calcium reactor are on constantly.
Carbon replaced monthly.
4*12000 litre Tunze for circulation.
3*250W MH are on for 9 hours.
4*80W T5 are on for 10 hours.
1*250 MH in the sump is on for 6 hours during the night.


Alkalinity and Fosphates have not been mesured, but if they can have such an effect on the growth, that would be my next shot.

Right now I'm trying out Vodka for increased skimmer efficiency and will prune the Anthelia because some of these have growth inhibiting abilities.

Click if you like to see more pictures.

 

[SunnyX]

Levacide Levacide Levacide Levacide Levacide Levacide Levacide

I have had quite a few email about why some are having corals die off and not grow. The one variable I have found in ALL of these systems was the dosing of Levacide or Levamisole to treat flatworms. The Levamisole works fine in the beginning, but slowly over the next few months corals mysteriously die off and lose coloration.

I would stop all dosing of Levacide and run as much carbon, poly filter, or Purigen in order to remove as much of it as possible. With enough water changes and carbon you should be able to take most of the Levacide out of the system. The others who had reported the same problems as yourself had only dosed Levacide once, where you on the other hand have been doing so monthly. You probably have some Levacide tied up in the rock work so it may be slowly leaching out.


Since you are already dosing vodka it would be a good idea to dose some bacteria as well. Zeobak should be easy to find in your location and would greatly aid in the reduction of waste along with increasing the overall health of the system.

ALK and PO4 have a large impact on corals so get those checked out as well. From the evidence I have seen and systems I have analyzed, Levacide should NOT be dosed in a reef tank.

 

[coolfishy101]

Sounds like sunnyx has already solved the problem. The only other thing that jumps out at me off your specs is temp swings. 78-84 may be within tolerance for corals, but if the temp swings 6 degrees everyday it could cause problems.

 

[DNA]

Thanks Sunny and Coolfishy for your input.

Daily temperature swings are max 3 degrees, but on still sunny days wich are few the tank can run a bit high.

Sunny there are two factors here in a tug of war.
If I stop using Levacide the flatworms are likely to reach their previous epic numbers and cover around 20% of all surface area in the tank and degrade water quality with their dieoff. On the other hand I need to do some changes to try to correct the situation so I'm ready to stop using Levacide for a while, bought some bacteria in a bottle and will give your advice a chance for a few months.

I got the best coral health for a month or two shortly after I added quite a bit of live rock. That may not have been the real cause for improved conditions, but it's a possibility at least. Of course this was only a temporary period before it got back to the same as before.

 

[shaggy14]

i would say test alk and phosp for sure!
low alk almost wiped out my system once.

 

[shaggy14]

and get a couple reef safe wrasses to help with the flat worms. a lot safer than chemicals.

 

[DNA]

Here is an update.

Several changes were made like new lightbulbs, more flow and among other things Vodka dozing as well.
The corals are growing fast now and their polyp extension is really good. Algea has stopped growing, but diatom algae is still going as before. Perhaps more feeding will help with that.
Water clarity is better and the skimmer is much more effective than before. The red planaria flatworms are coming back in big numbers so I'll need to something about them.

I knew about the effect of phosphates on increased algae growth, but somehow the fact they can stunt coral growth had passed me completely. Now it's wait and see if the changes will work for the long term.

 

[29reef]

Sounds promising DNA, have you thought of introducing fish thy would help controll the red flatworms? I hear manderin fish are a popular choice given their beautiful coloration. I think you could have a pair in your aquarium without problems. Best of luck to you with the rebound.

 

[DNA]

Here is an update almost a year later.

I've lost 3 large corals, Elephant skin lost it's green color and was white for months, but did not die, Turbinaria is suffering from very slow tissue necrosis and has been dieing for more then a year now and only has patches still alive, M Capricornis went from red to dull brown in a few days, there is no growth, but it does not appear to be dead.

My Stylophora got tissue necrosis as well and only about 2% is alive now after about than a month of turning white from the base up. I did frag it and the frags continued to bleach, but it seems that tiny tips may survive. You can see the coral middle top in the 2005 picture top of this thread. This coral has now twice gone through this.

I got some frags recently. Red M. Capricornis turned white in 24 hours and it was like acid was melting the tissue. Green Capricornis is going the same route but much slower and a fingernail size patch is still alive. The 10 remaining frags seem to be doing alright and it's too soon to say if they live or die.

The SPS corals thare a doing fine are green and red M Digitata. My two acroporas have grown to about 4 inches in a year, but recent growth is next to none. My two leave corals has grown about an inch in the last year. I had a bird's nest grow really fast untill my Hydnopora reached it from far away and against the current and it died instantly. This Hydnopora has also gone through similar phases as the Stylopora.

The LPS are all doing good. Growth is slow but steady.

I've got two small soft corals, a toadstool that has stayed at 3 inches for years and a cabbage that has stayed at 4 inches for just as long.

Conclusion.
Water quality is still not good enaugh for SPS to thrive.

For the year that has passed I've been dosing Vodka, running carbon, Poly Filter and Purigen and really tried to do my best, but I have to admit I'm lazy when it comes to testing mostly because all tests turn out perfect, but still the water quality is not there.

Another odd thing is with the fish. I've got a Copperband, Regal, Foxface, Occelaris, Maroon and Royal gramma that have been with me for years, but new additions do really poorly and I do acclimate them slowly. Out of the last 10 new fishes I have two left.

I understand the reef is about life and death, but I'd like to swing it more away from the death part.

Here is a picture from april this year.

 

[jackinfobo]

Hey I might have a solution to your flatworm problems. There is a creature called the Blue Velvet Nudibranch, which eats flatworms. The down side tho is that they are really difficult to maintain and that they can not tollerate rapid changes in water conditions including temp. Just thought you might wana check it out.

Stephen

 

[buy_baff]

If it were me I would break it down and start from scratch.

 

[DNA]

In my part of the world there are not many reefkeepers and many things we like to have are simply not available and livestock is really scarce. The nudibranch is definately not available and not likely to be a solution to the flatworms anyways. It looks like my newly added Mandarin is helping out keeping them down.

I have torn the tank down once already, but did not replace the rocks. I'm getting closer to that drastic action, but it will be very costly and include importing, CITES permits and the works.

Right now I've got a theory wich is that the single action faucets are leaking form the hot side to the cold and pollutants from the geothermal water is causing this from my automatic topoff wich is straight from the tap. These faucets are prone to this kind of faults and I'm pursuing this for a few months now to see if things improve.

The Vodka dosing seems to have helped alot, but I'm still not where I was for years before without any Vodka, Purigen, Polyfilter or non stop carbon usage.

 

[DNA]

9 months have passed and the tanks health still has mad swings and moods I don't understand.
All these problems have made be a better reefer for sure and I was thinking I've had all of the problems a tank can have, besides from Acro eating flatworms. Wait a minute, I have not looked for it yet. Levacide has not been used for a very long time so that's not a cause.

Here are some that come to mind.
Aiptasia - Solved with a Copper banded butterfly years ago.
Leak - Tank emptied and resealed.
Bryopsis - Solved with vodka and competition from other macro algae.
Red planaria - Kept down with a mandarin dragonet.
Tissue necrosis - Unsolved and reoccurring. M digitata has flesh pealing off right now.
Bleaching - Unsolved and reoccurring. It's a wonder to see corals recover from what looks like certain death.
Turf Algae - Battle currently in progress.
High mortality rate of new fish - Fish are imported and go straight to the customer.
Calcium reactor fail - CO2 line broke in a way that air replaced the CO2 at exactly the same bubble rate.


Me being a knowledgeable reefer, I should not be having all these problems.
I've chased so many theories and tested all kinds of methods but with little or no luck.
Chemical tests give perfect reading and still at the same time all the colorful corals are brown and partially dead already.

RODI units are considered a total overkill and the units are not available in the country. In most countries it's an absolute must, but the quality of water here is quite unique.
I've asked on the chemistry forum and got the impression it's not needed, but it seems to be the best next wild goose to chase.

Sorry for the long post, it was supposed to be a two liner.

 

[Aimforever]

I am by no means an expert, and I understand you have reason to believe your water is of high quality, but considering how many things you have tried and how long you have been at this I think it makes a lot of sense to try RODI. Where I am at, when new reefers get serious about trying SPS RODI is always the first suggestion they'll get. Even if the source of the water is of high quality, it doesn't guarantee that it isn't being contaminated in some way on the way to your faucet. Unless you have had your water lab tested for contaminents, can you really be sure that it is pristine? I'm sure you know far more about your water quality than I do, but I think if I had been in your situation, installing an RODI would have been one of the first geese I chased.

I have a lot of respect for how long you have been trying to figure this out. I can only imaging how frustrating it has been, and you deserve a big thumbs up for sticking with it. I really hope things turn around for you soon!