No nitrates....is that my problem?

[miggs76]

So here is my problem. I have a SPS only tank. I'm getting decent growth, but my colors are not good. Acro's lost colors and polyp extension only at night. I've triple checked and I'm almost certain there are no pests. I've even pulled out an acro and did the bayer dip to see if anything falls off and all I see are some harmless pods. I'm thinking it is one of the following two problems (or maybe a combo of both):

1) Water is nutrient stripped and too clean
2) LEDs are too bright (or too long of a photoperiod)

Here are my parameters:
1) Alk 7.5 (hanna)
2) Cal 410 (salifert)
3) Mag 1280 (Red Sea Pro)
4) Phosphate .03 (Hanna Ultra Low Phosphorus)
5) Nitrates 0 (salifert)
6) Temp 80

Alk and Cal are on 2 part dosers timed with an apex
Mag is hand dosed weekly
Very stable parameters due to dosers and controller

When I check the nitrates with the salifert it is always crystal clear which means I have zero nitrates....I'm trying my best to get a little shade of the pink to show nitrates of 5-10 but for the life of me can't.
Phosphates are very low and I believe the Ultra Low Phosphorus checkers are accurate. There are times I check it and get .01
It is a 60 gallon cube and I have a Reef Octopus Diablo skimmer.

I am not sure whether it is the LEDs that are too bright or just not enough feeding. I have the lights on from 10am until 9pm. The highest the radion gets it to 70% and that's only for 2.5 hours. I have not been feeding the corals much and have only 7 small fish (2 clowns, 3 anthias, 1 mystery wrasse, 1 yellow watchman goby).

I'm going to turn down my LEDs 10% and start feeding heavier with Rogger's food or Rod's food for a month and see what happens.

Any suggestions?

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Do you use GAC and/or GFO?

 

[chopper320]

I'm following along as this is the same situation I'm in.

 

[miggs76]

Yes I do use GFO and also carbon

 

[blakers82]

How often are you replenishing GFO/Carbon? How old is this system? Also could you better explain "lost color"? Pale? The darker thing? Did you experience better coloration in the past?

 

[miggs76]

Changing GFO/carbon about every 6 weeks. Colors look pale.....dark colors seem to fade away to lighter colors. System is 1.5 years old.

 

[reefinder]

Crap lighting and no patience those are problems

 

[miggs76]

Crap lighting and no patience those are problems

Are you saying I have crap lighting and no patience?

 

[markalot]

Are you saying I have crap lighting and no patience?

Who knows what he's saying.

I think you should make it a goal to get some brown corals. That's how i finally figured out what was wrong. Took all media out, fed heavily, increased maintenance due to additional algae issues .... and my corals still looked pale. I lucked into being able to rent a PAR meter and found my crappy AquaticLife T5's on legs, over glass lids, were still putting over 300 PAR mid levels, and near 200 on the sandbed.

Bottom line, I had too much light for my tanks and what I am capable of taking care of. So I significantly changed the lighting so I'm 150ish on the sandbed and near 300 only in a few spots.

My take is that corals can certainly be colorful in bright light, but you must constantly keep nutrients (but not phosphates) in the water for the corals to use or they will go pale. I've seen so many tanks with <200 PAR over SPS and those SPS are way more colorful than mine.

first adjustment

current readings, with 4T5 and a reefbright LED strip
-front- ReefBright blue/white, AL Blue (low par blue), Blue+, Coral+, Purple+ -back-

Note that while some of my colors are improving I still have a long way to go. No tank is the same, IMO, but hopefully this will give you some things to think about.

 

[miggs76]

Interesting.....I took my lights down 10% a few days ago...I'm going to look for any type of reaction and adjust from there.

 

[dadummy]

my experience with LED is the tend to make corals pale when hit with too much. Usually takes a couple months for frags to acclimate and start coloring up. I have noticed colorful LED tanks have the fixture way high above the tank. Like previously posted, feed as much as possible without having negative effects. IMO iron dosing help color up sps

 

[miggs76]

my experience with LED is the tend to make corals pale when hit with too much. Usually takes a couple months for frags to acclimate and start coloring up. I have noticed colorful LED tanks have the fixture way high above the tank. Like previously posted, feed as much as possible without having negative effects. IMO iron dosing help color up sps

Iron dosing, eh? I've never really heard of that for coloration. What is your regiment for that?

 

[ridetheducati]

Feed more. Also, consider dosing potassium nitrate, iron and iodine. That is my secret.

 

[miggs76]

Feed more. Also, consider dosing potassium nitrate, iron and iodine. That is my secret.

Where do you get potassium nitrate? Mind expanding on how much of everything you dose?

 

[DiscusHeckel]

I had exactly the same problem. Here are my current water parameters:

1) Alk 7.8 (Salifert)
2) Cal 425 (salifert)
3) Mag 1340-1355 (Salifert)
4) Phosphate 0 < P < 0.008 mg/l (Rowa Merck)
5) Nitrates 0 < NO3 < 0.1 (Salifert)
6) Temp 27.5 C

My Acropora corals looked very pale even though their growth was OK. I hypothesised that my corals were starving and that I needed to provide more food for them. I took the following steps to tackle the problem:

1. I removed the sand bed over a period of two months;
2. I started to feed my fish more. I am now exclusively using frozen food up to three times a day;
3. I stopped my GFO reactor. I used to fluidise Rowa Phos. After stopping my GFO reactor, I noticed that phosphate readings remained undetected;
4. I started to dose Salifert Coraline Amino acids once a week as directed;
5. I stopped my GAC reactor. I am now running it once a month for up to four days to mop up any excess organics;

Since I made these changes a few months ago, the colouration of my acropora corals has intensified and their poly expansion has increased. Throughout this experiment I have kept the light intensity constant. Majority of my acropora corals receive between 250-350 mmol PAR (Apogee). My clams get 350-450 mmol PAR.

It is still a mystery to me why nitrates and phosphates are still undetected in my tank despite the increased feeding regime. I largely attribute this to large bed of chaeto growing in my sump (its growth rate has picked up noticeably) and three large tridacnid clams, which are known to consume, albeit small amounts, nitrogen and phosphorus.

Hope this helps...

PS. I also dose Kent marine super chelated iron to boost the growth of my chaeto and Brightwell aquatics' Potassion (potassium chloride & potassium sulphate mix) to maintain the potassium levels between 390-400 ppm.

 

[toothman]

you could consider using zeostart 3, it has a carbon source and nitrate to help reduce phosphate.

 

[miggs76]

you could consider using zeostart 3, it has a carbon source and nitrate to help reduce phosphate.

thanks, I very well may look into that

 

[miggs76]

I had exactly the same problem. Here are my current water parameters:

1) Alk 7.8 (Salifert)
2) Cal 425 (salifert)
3) Mag 1340-1355 (Salifert)
4) Phosphate 0 < P < 0.008 mg/l (Rowa Merck)
5) Nitrates 0 < NO3 < 0.1 (Salifert)
6) Temp 27.5 C

My Acropora corals looked very pale even though their growth was OK. I hypothesised that my corals were starving and that I needed to provide more food for them. I took the following steps to tackle the problem:

1. I removed the sand bed over a period of two months;
2. I started to feed my fish more. I am now exclusively using frozen food up to three times a day;
3. I stopped my GFO reactor. I used to fluidise Rowa Phos. After stopping my GFO reactor, I noticed that phosphate readings remained undetected;
4. I started to dose Salifert Coraline Amino acids once a week as directed;
5. I stopped my GAC reactor. I am now running it once a month for up to four days to mop up any excess organics;

Since I made these changes a few months ago, the colouration of my acropora corals has intensified and their poly expansion has increased. Throughout this experiment I have kept the light intensity constant. Majority of my acropora corals receive between 250-350 mmol PAR (Apogee). My clams get 350-450 mmol PAR.

It is still a mystery to me why nitrates and phosphates are still undetected in my tank despite the increased feeding regime. I largely attribute this to large bed of chaeto growing in my sump (its growth rate has picked up noticeably) and three large tridacnid clams, which are known to consume, albeit small amounts, nitrogen and phosphorus.

Hope this helps...



PS. I also dose Kent marine super chelated iron to boost the growth of my chaeto and Brightwell aquatics' Potassion (potassium chloride & potassium sulphate mix) to maintain the potassium levels between 390-400 ppm.

Thank you, it helps a lot! I'm going to look into this. You are the second person to say something about potassium so maybe I'll get a test kit this week.

 

[jda]

You have nitrates. They are just getting used up pretty quick by likely mostly the bacteria and some by the coral.

I don't run either GAC or GFO on my SPS tank. Both N and P are "clear" on Salifert kits.

I don't think that you will ever have world-class colors under LED, but they should still have some color. If you have color and are looking for world class, then you might be as good as you can get. If you have seen some LED lit tanks WITH YOUR OWN EYES that look better, then you can look to raise the nitrate a bit and look at nutrients.

IMO, it is going to be pretty hard to do the same things that people who lit tanks with other lights did... the difference in results and results, IMO, is just too large. Others will disagree - if you also disagree, then my apologies for posting.

 

[miggs76]

You have nitrates. They are just getting used up pretty quick by likely mostly the bacteria and some by the coral.

I don't run either GAC or GFO on my SPS tank. Both N and P are "clear" on Salifert kits.

I don't think that you will ever have world-class colors under LED, but they should still have some color. If you have color and are looking for world class, then you might be as good as you can get. If you have seen some LED lit tanks WITH YOUR OWN EYES that look better, then you can look to raise the nitrate a bit and look at nutrients.

IMO, it is going to be pretty hard to do the same things that people who lit tanks with other lights did... the difference in results and results, IMO, is just too large. Others will disagree - if you also disagree, then my apologies for posting.

Have you looked at ridetheducatis tank above? He's using LEDs and I think it looks great.