No Sick Fish

[shozbot]

I've had ich off and on for several years, but for most of that time it hasn't been very noticeable. I attribute that mostly to the use of garlic extreme in my fishes food since it seems to boost immunity. At least that's what I've read, but now for some reason the ich has gotten very bad and the garlic is not working.

I won some "no sick fish" medicine for ich in a raffle a while back, but never used it. I've always been skeptical about such stuff and felt the real solution was to probably quarantine the fish for several weeks to break the cycle. For many reasons, I've never done that and was now willing to gamble with the no sick fish.

I followed the instructions and added 4 drops of the med into my 75g tank with sump for 7 days both am and pm. I also shutdown all my filtration including skimmer as recommended. The result was that the ich either got worse or was unchanged and also I believe the Ph dropped down to 7.6 [Alk was 12.0]. I think the Ph drop was largely due to the fact that it was difficult to get rid of the CO2 without injecting air from the skimmer. With the Ph that low several of my corals bleached out almost overnight.

I have now finished treatment and have skimmer back on and am trying raise Ph back up to 8-8.3.

Did anyone else try this med and can share their experience or comment on my problem in any way.

Steve

 

[kevin2000]

I am not a fan of NSF ... use the search feature and you will find some pretty nasty threads about that company.

 

[billsreef]

Re: No Sick Fish

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10941933#post10941933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shozbot
The result was that the ich either got worse or was unchanged

That is the experience of everyone that I personally know who has tried it, including a trial I did myself.

 

[wolf pup]

I have a friend who used it to "cure" his tank - My mistake was to some time later purchase stock from him and I managed to wipe out my tank. This was in no way his fault but mine alone. I did not QT as everyone has told me to. I'm halfway through my fallow period to actually cure my tank and I can say that in my personal and humble opinion, the product could be construed to be falsely advertised junk. Such statements are only opinion and not intended to be an evaluation or critique. Any individual should evaluate peer reviewed research material to form an educated opinion of a product's effectiveness. With that understanding, I would never use it nor trust it based upon my own experience.

 

[Spracklcat]

As Billsreef above will attest to, one of our local guys added a new fish without quarantining it to an extablished tank with well over a dozen fat healthy tangs etc, and every single fish got ich. He tried the No Sick Fish, and lost 90% of his fish. A tragedy for sure. I wouldn't use it.

 

[billsreef]

The case Spracklcat mentions is just one of several with such results. Such snake oil remedies exist solely because everyone wants to believe there is an easy way out, sadly no such easy way exists.

 

[sherm71tank]

And yet RC continues to advertise for No Sick Fish. I just saw the banner on the home page.

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10946601#post10946601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
And yet RC continues to advertise for No Sick Fish. I just saw the banner on the home page.

I suspect that many RC members are disappointed that RC uses NSF as a sponsor - perhaps the quest for money or maybe the fear of litigation has confused/conflicted with the original goal of helping guide salt water aquarist.

 

[sherm71tank]

I inquired about this very thing some time ago. Nothing was done about it then, I suspect nothing will be done now.

 

[jnarowe]

I have found that meds really are not the key to dealing with Ich. Feeding well, exporting nutrients, and good general husbandry seem to be the best bet for boostiung the fish' immune systems.

The notion that Ich can be "cured" is rather baseless. Anytime you add something to your tank, you risk introducing disease, pests, etc. and a fish can appear to be healthy yet still carry disease or parasites. There are many threads and articles on how to deal with incoming livestock, and I don't think any one method is a cure-all. The use of a QT is certainly adventageous, but most people just don't have the space to keep a separate system cycled and ready to go at a moment's notice.

There are some things you can do to lower your risk though, like releasing fish into the display after lights out, not over-stocking, providing pristine water conditions, feeding quality food, and soaking food in vitamins and aminos.

Variety in the diet is a good thing too. I virtually never feed dry food. My fish are extremely healthy and I believe there is a combination of factors that make it so.

This hobby is full of grotesquely abusive purveyors, and yo uhave to ask yourself, would I eat that? Would I breathe that?

No Sick Fish? Seriously, does anyone believe that?

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10947277#post10947277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
The notion that Ich can be "cured" is rather baseless.

Actually it's rooted in solid science. Can it easily be reintroduced? Sure, if you don't take the time and effort to properly quarantine. Just because the average aquarist doesn't QT, doesn't mean the parasite can't be eradicated from a tank.

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10947277#post10947277 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
I
The notion that Ich can be "cured" is rather baseless.

Ich is just a parasite -- doesn't get into your tank unless you put it there -- easy to eradicate so long as the fish is QT'd before you put it into the tank. Your dog/cat isn't born with fleas - your tank doesn't come with ich.

 

[Spracklcat]

Agreed (with Kevin and Bill)--peole just think it can't be cured because unfortunatly many tanks have a sub-clinical amount of it (fish don't show symptoms but the parasite is there in small quantities. Does that mean it can't be cured no? It just means it can;t be eradicated from the tank by any quick-fix methods.

 

[shozbot]

How do I now recover from using this so called product? Powder Blue Tang has more ich than ever. Don't want to lose him since I've had him for 10yrs! I'm doing extra water changes, skimming heavily, and trying to get my Ph back in range. Now at 8.0 from 7.6 earlier in the week. Also, adding garlic and selcon to food daily as I have done for the past year.

If I do quarentine, do I also have to remove inverts from my tank as well as fish or does just removing fish break the ich cycle? Also, do I need to cycle the quarantine tank or can I just skim, run carbon, and do water changes aggressively for a couple of months?

Steve

 

[jnarowe]

perhaps I didn't post that very well. what I meant to write is that Ich "cures" don't work in the practical situation of most reef keepers without serious disruption to their tanks. Sure Ich can be eliminated by proper QT procedures, and various other good husbandry pratices, but on a whole, paying attention to fish health, water quality, good nutrition are much more practical.

In my system, I can't pull out all the fish and go fallow. I can't use Ich treatments on my reef either without significant collateral damage.

SO I agree with you guys that Ich can be eradicated, but not by the method being discussed in this thread.

 

[kevin2000]

Ich only impacts fish so you can leave the inverts in the show tank while you QT and treat your fish.

Hypo salinity and copper are the two most effective ich treatments .. I prefer hypo salinity over copper especially with tangs. The ich within the show tank should naturally die off after about 5 weeks - ich requires a fish to perpetuate its life cycle.

Having a mature bio filter in a QT is very helpful but not mandatory. If you have some mature bio filter media in your show tank you might consider moving that to the QT - if not be prepared to make major water changes throughout the QT period to control ammonia issues. Making up a large batch of replacement water when you setup the QT is a good idea ... using an inexpensive Seachem ammonia alert badge will save you from doing a zillion ammonia test .. something to consider.

Heres a good link discussing how to QT with hypo - worth a read.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288805

 

[DgenR8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10946601#post10946601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
And yet RC continues to advertise for No Sick Fish. I just saw the banner on the home page.

Not an easy situation for us. When we refused banner space to the Eco Aqualizer, the accusation was that we were preventing members that wanted that thing from being exposed to it. Then, someone opened one up, posted pictures of the components, and I believe the company disappeared.
I don't believe in NSF any more than I do bacteria in a bottle, but some people do believe in it. Would accepting sponsorship from "Bottled bacteria, INC" be misleading our members, or exposing them to one more thing that you should make a decision on by asking, and researching?
I'm not taking a shot at you, just trying to explain that there's often more to it than just what you see.

 

[sherm71tank]

I appreciate the response. I guess I hold RC to a higher standard than just some company trying to sell products. There are members - newbies especially - who will see that banner and take it that RC approves the product.

 

[billsreef]

Sherm,

Take another look at the sponsor list

 

[sherm71tank]

WOO HOO!!! :dance: