No tangs

H

haydn

New member
My system is arguably on of the larger ones (display is 2000ltrs- 2M x 1m x 1M) I am currently rebuilding and have no existing stock to go back into it.

I have always had tangs in my tank, usually a group of yellows and combtooth varieties, mainly to do the browsing job on the rock. I have always been of the opinion that they were essential in a large system to keep the macro stuff in check, especially in those hard to reach places. A group have always been top of my list.

As I said I have just rebuilt my system and I'm embarking on the exciting stocking stage and TBH I'm not sure I want any tangs (or foxfaces) in the system, so any thoughts of fish/shrimp/crabs/other stuff that will do a similar job of browsing the rockwork. Is it even possible to not include tangs in a system this size. What do you nano guys use instead of tangs. I have thought of maybe groups of some sort of goby, blenny, crab or shrimp (I don't know of any shrimp that scrapes the rock though) that will not only do the job but look interesting.
 
I think it would be hard to get the same results with blennies as you'd need a lot more and may run into territorial battles. If it were me I would perhaps do a mix. Have a couple of blennies some snails etc and then have a really nice centrepiece show tang. You could do one that's less common like a freckleface.
I have also seen your thread on a pair of angels. How much impact do they make on macro's (only kept dwarfs who helped), might be that they do a good job and that smaller herbivores might well keep things good.
 
My problem is I'm not a fan of tangs (OK I'll get my coat) I usually only have them because I can't think of anything else to do the job in my size system. As I have a blank page for the first time in 7 years I wondered if there was anything new around or someone was running a large tang-less tank.
 
If you need to get your coat then we can share a taxi as I don't have a great fondness for them either. TBH I don't have much of a cuc (few snails from ten years or so ago and a dot dash blenny who prefers my sps to algae but I prefer him to them and he doesn't do much damage) and I don't have much macro growing in there. You see a little of that fluffy red kind but it's very sparse and you don't notice it until your specifically looking for it. So basically I wouldn't add anything until you need to.
I experimented in a little nano with some damsels (allens) and they did an excellent job getting rid of flatworm (which I attribute to them eating the algae and detritus), so they might contribute if you got a group of them. I think you might need the lots of fish doing a small role type of setup rather than one does it all.
 
starkii said:
If you need to get your coat then we can share a taxi as I don't have a great fondness for them either.
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Thank goodness I thought I might be on my own and been lynched :lolspin:


I think you might need the lots of fish doing a small role type of setup rather than one does it all.
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This is what makes it so interesting- I will have to do a fair amount of research and have specific groups for a particular 'clean-up' jobs.
 
I am too curious about this. I do like tangs but have always found if I am going to have an issue with a fish, such as disease or aggression, it's usually a tang. I have heard of people converting mollies to saltwater and they are great little algae eaters, just they don't live more than a few years I believe. I am very curious what others think. One thought though, what is a tang really doing, I mean if nutrient levels are in check, do you really need to worry.
 
Becks said:
A convict tang might be good?
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Errm I think that's a tang:spin1:

trueperc said:
I am too curious about this. I do like tangs but have always found if I am going to have an issue with a fish, such as disease or aggression, it's usually a tang. I have heard of people converting mollies to saltwater and they are great little algae eaters, just they don't live more than a few years I believe. I am very curious what others think. One thought though, what is a tang really doing, I mean if nutrient levels are in check, do you really need to worry.
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The disease and aggression issues are part of the problem but TBH I just think there are better looking fish. Why should I waste 5-7 largish fish load on something I don't want.

It isn't just about eating algae, the tangs graze the rock removing the biofilm (bacteria as well as macro/micro algae spores) stopping it building up and creating problems before it starts.
 
IME Diadema setosum will definitely keep caulerpa of any kind under control, :twitch: but in a tank that size you may need quite a few and thin them out as they grow. You'll need to be observant so they don't run out of food and possibly eat something desirable. Tripnuestes gratilla is also an industrious collector, but not all collectors are as effective. Large tropical abalone snails are voracious and clean up any short algal growth but can't get into crevices.

The crevices are the problem I think. If you get bubble algae growing there, not sure what you can do - especially if its seeded deep in an acro colony for instance. Like you, I can think of other fish I'd rather keep than tangs. I've given this a lot of thought for a larger system I'm planning....But the crevice problem is one area I don't have a recommendation for. :sad2:

Hth
:wave:
 
Interesting post. Honestly, this is a lot of the problems small tank owners run into. Owning a 40 breeder it doesn't lend room to Tangs, even of the smaller Varity. So we get creative and maintain creatures that do similar jobs.

Snails, which I don't prefer, keep glass somewhat clean, and rocks. I use a lot of strombus snails though which are smaller and breed in the tank rather well. Micro hermits and a few other smaller ones with maybe 5 blue legs. They seem to keep things in check. Lots of bristleworms seem to also help which I don't mind. Fish are a pair of clowns, pair of pajama cardinals, and a mated pair of damsels, Asure's.

I'm in the process of setting up a 210 gallon so my 40 will obviously move and I was excited that I can finally get a tang :) If I get one it will be something small, and only one. More than likely a Kole or Tommy.

If I can do away with the astria snails I'll be happy but for the most part not having a tang isn't the end of the world. Just fill in the gaps with other fish filling that roll. At least works on a smaller scale.
 
A Pair of Flame Angels, or Florida Astrea Snails. In my wifes 65 with jawfish I only have Astrea's to keep the algae down
 
What about a school of foxfaces (Siganus)? Basically you get a great cleaner and a good looking fish depending on what one you go with and not the issues with tangs.
 
Even for my tank they get too big and I have found when they get large they get a little aggressive, I had one which killed a 5" Powder Blue tang.
 
As a long-time nano keeper (29g and 24g) as well as having a big 120g tank, I've seen both sides of the coin.

Most algae in my nano is able to be kept in check through nutrient control (vodka dosing and skimming) as well as a few astrea snails and a few hermits (6 of each). That being said, bubble algae is now cropping up in a few places (I think site-specific for places that had phosphates, i.e. where corals died, but never on bare rock anywhere). Bubble algae was in my 120g tank, but my Desjardini sailfin tang took care of it.

With a nano, my only option is green mythax crabs and manual removal. I despise crabs in general, and particularly the mythax since they have a reputation for being facultative corallivores, so I prefer not to have anything that might eat a coral in my tank. Manual removal is the option I occasionally take, but just like with the Green Star Polyps that snuck into my tank, I've found that despite my best efforts at eradication, they still come back very quickly after being siphoned/scraped from the rocks.

I would look at non-tang species of large fishes that readily eat algae if you can. I'd consider a tang just to get rid of this bubble algae, but obviously a tang large enough to eat it in a 29g tank is bad.
 
If it were me and seeing how I'm a big fan of wrasse I would have a parrotfish up on the list. Scarus quoyi would likely be the main contender as they seem as reefsafe as you could get with a parrotfish and eat algae and detritus. I do realise they arent the most stunning fish but those who have them seem to love them.

There was a huge thread about them but I've only read the first couple of pages http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2293760 might have some info if your interested.

It might also be a good idea to list what your planning stock wise as it might rule things in or out. For instance if it's sps only then some butterflies might work, if it's bigger fish then something like a stippled clingfish would likely be a bad idea (ugly as he'll but somewhat charming). So apart from the majestic pair what are you thinking?
 
Coral stock will be mostly SPS with a few LPS (maybe Euphyllia, duncans) a couple of Cerianthus anemones.

Fish (so far) Anthias small groups of 3-4 species.
Fusilier Damselles (if I can source them).
Flasher wrasse
Pair of majestic angelfish
No large fish if I can avoid it, I want to try to get a 'reef crest' with clouds of fish over the reef.
 
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