NO3 - too low!

T

torhav

New member
This might sound strange to some of you, but I am struggling with too low NO3 levels.
If I do not add KNO3, my supermann and M.digitata starts to loose tissue. During the last two months I have dosed 20g KNO3.

At the moment I am dosing about 2 ppm NO3 daily, 1 ppm in the morning, and one after lights out. I can not measure more than 0.2ppm NO3 (salifert) after a couple of hours.
How much do you think it is safe to add each day? I would like to get my NO3 level in the 2-3ppm range, but I am afraid of raising the level too quick.

I can actually determine if my NO3 level is low by polyp extension on my supermann.
The bioload in my 90 gallon tank is fairly low, five small fish, and I have ~40kg of LR.
I once introduced Caulerpa racemosa, and I think this might cause my problem. I think the N:P ratio of this algae is 150:1... At the moment it is covering about 30% of my LR.

Do anyone have suggestions on how to fix this problem?
 
As long as it is being used and is suitably pure, it is safe to add as much as necessary. Elevated nitrate is not a big concern, IMO. :)

I can't the see macroalgae causing a "problem" in the N:P, but I show here that its N:P is about 70 (by weight), at least when gown in the ocean. :)

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Do you know the N:P in your other exports and/or imports?
 
I think it is from this article I got the N:P 153? to 1. https://commerce.metapress.com/cont...tkh45gmy2jijygdqzwufu&sh=www.springerlink.com

I think the caulerpa steals all the NO3 from my corals and thats why I would like to blame them...
Not suprisingly I think I have phosphate issues. I am running a cup of GFO in a reactor, but so far it has only removed my hair algae with good help from a newly introduced scopas and a salarias. Still stuggling with cyano.

I am running a small fuge, 7 gallons, with chaeto (reverse lighting), but the growt is slow.

Trying to hold back on feeding as I am afraid of adding too much phosphate. A small cube of frozen artemia and a little pinch of pellets a day at the most.
 
I can get anything except the title from that link. In any case, I don't see a reason to think it is taking up excessively more nitrogen than phosphate relative to other methods, but it might, and if you need to add nitrate for whatever reason, that's fine.

FWIW, I've used primarily Caulerpa racemosa for nutrient export for many years and haven't had any particular problems that I'd attribute to nitrate deficiency.
 
Good question. It might if you do not do decent regular water changes. The amount added each time would be reasonably low against a 400 ppm normal level of potassium, but could build up over time.
 
I am looking for signs of overdosing potassium, but have not seen any yet. If overdosing potassium becomes an issue, I guess I could change to sodiumnitrate, if I am able to find any... I am not doing WC in set intervalls, but I guess 10% weekly is the average, using NSW+D-D salt to get the right salinity.

The KNO3 dosing is no big deal, but it would be nice to be able to leave the tank for some days without worrying if my montiporas is dead when I return.
I could always dose KNO3 to my top up container...

Randy: If it is not the caulerpa that is causing my nitrate deficiency, do you have any suggestions what it could be?
Once to twice a week I am feeding my corals cyclopeeze and pro-coral zooton (only recommended dosage for one day). I soak this in some drops of salifert aminoacids and JBL vitamins before feeding. Could this act as a carbon source for bacteria, and would it be enough to deplete the whole system as quick as I am experiensing?
 
I am looking for signs of overdosing potassium, but have not seen any yet.

What would you look for? I've not seen any info on what happens if it is elevated. Maybe not much at reasonable overages.

Randy: If it is not the caulerpa that is causing my nitrate deficiency, do you have any suggestions what it could be?


The flip side if a nitrate deficiency is an overage on phosphate. Maybe there is an unbalanced phosphate source somewhere, in foods, top off water, rock, etc.
 
I have read that potassium overdosing leads to burnt tips on SPS. If I see any signs of this, I guess I will have to find an alternative NO3 source.

I do not think it is my top up water, TDS reading is 0ppm, and all RO filters are brand new. As I started using GFO for the first time a couple of months ago I guess I could be paying for neglecting phosphate removal until now.
If I add some extra GFO to my reactor, is there any typical signs on excessive GFO use? I would prefer my tank to be phosphate limited.
 
Many people who dose Zeovit also add potassium, and, interesting enough, cite Montipora as one of the corals that benefit from the addition of K. The results with potassium so far are anecdotal, but interesting non the less.

Finding another source of Nitrate might be useful from a home experiment standpoint in that you can see if the coral is lacking either the potassium or the nitrate. Perhaps sodium nitrate like you mentioned earlier, or perhaps calcium nitrate might be a good substitute.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14580531#post14580531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrPike
Many people who dose Zeovit also add potassium, and, interesting enough, cite Montipora as one of the corals that benefit from the addition of K. The results with potassium so far are anecdotal, but interesting non the less.

Finding another source of Nitrate might be useful from a home experiment standpoint in that you can see if the coral is lacking either the potassium or the nitrate. Perhaps sodium nitrate like you mentioned earlier, or perhaps calcium nitrate might be a good substitute.
Click to expand...
You might be right. Macroalgae also needs potassium, I wish I knew how much. I actually have a 25kg bag of potassiumchloride laying around. If I only dose potassium, I would see results in a couple of days.
I will have to wait until my supermann heals though. I was gone during the weekend, and right now it does not look healthy.
 
What is your source of KNO3? Stump remover like the freshwater plant tank keepers (like I was...) will use?


I am "making" nitrate right now. I have a 5 gallon bucket with 2g of water in it, and a very, very well established bacterial colony on a small powerhead w/sponge filter. It can completely cycled 5-8 ml of household ammonia (ammonium hydroxide) in a day or two.

I take some of the water from that bucket WHEN AMMONIA reads 0 and use some of it to dose the nitrate into my tank.

I just started dosing nitrate into my nano this week (and just started a thread about it, and then noticed your thread). The results have surprised me, and my Tyree Idaho Grape monti is one of the ones that has responded the best. I also have a doo-doo brown digitata that has responded quite well. In a week!


My chaeto has added probably 10-20% of it's mass, and I have a nice clump of "decorative" red algae in the main tank that's an easy 25% bigger--- in a week. Previously it grew maybe 1/4" per couple of weeks---- alive but stunted.



So what is your source of KNO3?
 
I was a plated tank kepper as you before I "converted". I had a small bag of KNO3 from those days that I did not throw away.
I do not know if the stump remover is "reef safe", but I know it is used do dose very high amounts of KNO3 in planted tanks without problems, so I guess it can not contain too much unhealthy crap.
Would a water change be effective in removing unwanted heavy metals, or could this make its way into LR like phosphate or into the sand bed? Randy?
 
Torhav, some folks were using calcium nitrate as well. Do you know where they were getting it from? I never bought any (stump remover was just way too easy to find) and now I can't find it easily anywhere in forms that I would trust in a reef.
 
Since I started the thread, I have dosed 2-3 times the amount that I used to. Yesterday I measured NO3 to 3 ppm. Now, I will use the next days to find the right dose to keep the NO3 level where it is.
My montis look a bit pale at the moment. I think they are about to loose tissue again. I sure hope not as my supermann is almost healed after the last time. Hopefully they are pale because I did not dose KNO3 last weekend. If it is, I should see improvements during the weekend.
 
Just started a similar discussion in the sps forum, and researching potassium found this one.

My nitrates are pretty low, almost undetectable with Salifert kit. My Acropora all look good but my Montipora are looking poor, just the last couple days. Hoping to avoid a recession event much like you. I also keep a seagrass tank and was dosing KNO3 ( stump remover ) to keep the NO3 up never had a problem from it that I'm aware with corals.

Low Potassium was suggested as one of the potential problems. I wonder if I shouldnt add a bit and see what happens.

I've also got an algae problem, hair algae and more recently now cyano. My chaeto and Caulerpa in the fuge are not doing well. Is it possible that nitrate limitation is hurting the macro's and leaving plenty of PO4 for the nuisance stuff?
 
The macro and chaeto may be suffering from an iron deficiency. I've noticed that iron depletion tends to happen a lot quicker than nitrate depletion (since nitrate is always produced 24/7, if only a little bit, by the tank's natural process).


I am starting to suspect that people with big, brightly lighted refugiums could curb and halt a lot of algae problems by dosing nitrate (if and only if their tank was nitrate deficient to start with). My reason is that the macroalgae in the fuge will be enabled to grow more and remove more and more phosphate.


Since cyanobacteria can fix nitrogen, they can grow in a nitrate-free environment. Seems to me that phosphate would be the next big-ticket item they would need. Dosing nitrate and iron might be a very cost-effective way to reduce phosphate using a big fuge.
 
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