Non Photosynthetic Soft Corals?

[aninjaatemyshoe]

My constant water-changing scheme is fairly simple. I'm using the Litermeter III to accurately pull water from my tank and dump it down the drain while one of its remote pump modules is pulling fresh saltwater from a large container and emptying it in my tank. This is makes water changes extremely simple. The only thing I have to do is occasionally make new batches of saltwater. Granted, the LM3 is not cheap. But if I were to go with another smaller tank, I would definitely get another one and use that along with carbon/gfo/possibly purigen as my sole filtration. It just makes alot more sense for smaller tanks, especially in terms of maintaining stable water parameters. For large tanks I wouldn't like it due to the expense of salt.

My skimmer is the Aquamedic Shorty II skimmer. It is a beast for the size tank I have. It is a recirc skimmer that is fed directly from my overflow.

 

[dendro982]

Thank you! Very informative.
Can you post a link to your tank thread or webpage? And what NPS corals and FF do you have, how they are doing, anything interesting? Any growth, by chance?

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I don't have either. My tank is fairly new with non-photosynthetics. The only ones I can confidently say I've had success with are my tubastrea and dendrophyllia. I'm pretty sure my diodogorgias are thriving as their polyps are almost always open. My blueberry gorgonia has its polyps extended most of the time, no noticeable signs of decline. It is only a month old however. My menella and scleronepthyas are really new. The menella has been open almost the entire time since I've had it. I'm still working with the sclero to get it open. I also have a T. micrantha that I bought near dead. I'm trying to nurse it back to health.

Here are some pics:
Full tank:

Diodogorgias:

Scleros:

Tubastreas:

Blueberry:

Dendrophyllia:

 

[Kreeger1]

Aim one of your nano's right at the scerlo. That should get it to open up. In my tank I have 3 nano's aimed at my scerlo and its doing great.

Those air lines right by your Diodogorgias are they feed lines? My Diodogorgias don't stay open much during the day so they've got me a little worried. They do open at night though so I don't know if theres something up with them or not
Erik

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Yeah, since the photo was taken I've reordered my tunzes around a bit (I talked to Chuck and he had the same advice). Now one of them is shooting directly at the sclero. Still not open yet, but it's only been about a day. How long did it take your sclero to open up?

The tube right next to my diodogorgias is the feed line from my mini-fridge. I'm using a remote pump module from my LM3 to deliver food throughout the day. The other things that look like tubes are actually zip lines that I've used to suspend the diodogorgias.

If your diodogorgias are opening up and feeding, they probably are ok even if they don't do so all day. Mine do close up occasionally (like the red one in the pic) for awhile and then open back up later. In my tank, it is infrequent that they close and seemingly completely random (nothing to do with day/night or feeding).

 

[ziggy222]

also there are some corals that are borderline photosynthetic like silk coral which is hard to keep and kenya and nepthia that are easier.also you can add featherdusters but the bigger they are the harder to keep.so i hear.your looking for corals that don't require a new light right?

 

[dendro982]

Gorgeous sclero and blueberry!

- What are you feeding, amount and frequency,
- flow speed and pattern around blueberry,
- what T5 light (significant actinic component or not),
- salt mix, SG, temperature and water parameters?

The reason for asking: here, at RC was post about keeping blueberry alive and open for 4 months (can't find link right now), significant part of light was actinic, very strong flow (much more, than diodogorgia will tolerate), but behind the rock. Water parameters - as a baseline for everything, I wouldn't compare keeping corals in the natural seawater or in cheap salt mix in tap water, with not perfect skimmer

Sclero:
mine orange one opened in quite high laminar flow - see the green star polyps degree of bending:

It is in 2.5 ft from 295 gph powerhead, with deflector directed to the water surface, not onto coral. Now it's open as long, as a food is present in the water.

At your sclero present location, such amount of flow will bother tubastrea (at least mine, very similar to yours, will be bothered). Time for opening after changing water flow - within one day.

Diodogorgias, red and yellow:
Mine are open almost all the time, as long a the food is present in water column. Long time closure was in cases:
- nitrates above 80 ppm, flatworms and red cyano in refugium in the same time, unskimmed nano,
- sediment on branches and red cyano in 90g (same, where the tubastrea, sclero and swiftia are OK),
- thick bacterial film on the branches in no light unskimmed nano, was low water flow near them.
After improving situation, they are opening again.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

"- What are you feeding, amount and frequency,
- flow speed and pattern around blueberry,
- what T5 light (significant actinic component or not),
- salt mix, SG, temperature and water parameters?"

My feeding is currently changing. I have been feeding continuously 200mL a day of a mixture of DT's phyto, GPs various sizes, Cyclops, Selcon, Marine Snow, and Nutra-Mar prawn eggs. The mixture is mostly fresh saltwater, as that is what I combine the food in. The amount hasn't been very scientific and I figure it is probably quite a bit more than I need to feed. I'm going to be changing this regimen altogether though. After talking with Chuck about what he's been successful with, I'm going to switch to Reed's Shelfish Diet (a much thicker phyto mix than DTs) around 15mL per day and a mixture of Roti-Feast, Nutra-Mar prawn eggs, cyclops, and perhaps continuing with the GPs. The latter mixture will be fed at about 10mL per day, or a diluted equivalent of a thick slurry of such an amount. I also target feed my Tubastrea and Dendrophyllia a variety of meaty food daily. I will probably continue with that but perhaps take it down to once every other day, depending upon how well my other feeding regimen works for the tank.

My blueberry, as you can see in the pic, is on the far right end of the tank. Although it would seem that it is in a fairly low-flow section of the tank, it is actually getting quite a bit of flow; especially since I've moved the two Tunzes on the right down to the bottom of the tank. The flow is primarily directly downwards. I have not measured flow speed. I don't think I would be able to come up with a very accurate measurement if I tried. The best thing that I can say is to describe that the Tunzes are 6055s and they are running all the time now. The ones on the top left are in pulse mode (for surge flow) and the ones on bottom right are running full blast.

I am using a Tek 6xT5 fixture. I forget which light bulbs I am running. I do have actinics on it, but I would say that overall it is a warm daylight color. I know people have made the observation that actinic lighting seems best for blueberries, but I don't understand why. The only thing I could think of is that warmer color often is associated with algae. I don't have the problem of algae on my blueberry.

I use Instant Ocean salt mix. Not the premium stuff, I know. But it is cheap, which is nice for doing the continuous water changes. I have never had a problem with this salt mix in the past (nothing has died or declined on me mysteriously). Everything seems to be doing well in it. I mix it with RO/DI water to a salinity of 35ppt (whatever that converts to specific gravity). Temperature stays around 74-77 right now. I know it will increase somewhat in the summer, say to around 78 average. Hopefully that won't have an effect on things. I have a ton of evaporative cooling, so temperature never gets above 80. Other water parameters: I actually haven't measured my calcium and alkalinity in awhile. Considering I do constant water changes, keep the pH steady above 8.2 with kalk, and don't have many stonies at all, I don't really sweat it too much. I have kept an eye on nitrates and phosphates since I've been heavily feeding though. Both are at undetectable levels.

 

[Kreeger1]

aninjaatemyshoe, Have you considered the vodka dosing like Chuck does, I spent a good amount of time reading up on it last night And I might give either vodka or sugar dosing a shot in my tank.

I'm gonna makes some frags tonight of some of my corals so stay tuned for that

I also heard from Dan at salty critter that he's getting 4060 new non photo items in this week so maybe if your headed to the critter this weekend you could stop over and check out the tank, and maybe we could hit Chucks on the way to the critter. Just a thought.

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Yeah, I was one of the people that was called about that. I was looking for some lemnalia and some non-photo stuff. I'm PMing you.

I've looked into the vodka dosing method and I've been considering it. For these kinds of tanks, it is possibly one of the best methods of denitrification (perhaps the only one that can keep up). My only reservation is that it can lead to cyano problems. I used a product a year ago called AZNO3, which is essentially the same thing as adding vodka/sugar/other carbon source. It led to some nasty thick mats of cyano (stuff would even collect on the surface of the water). I think the problem came from the following:

-I probably used more than was needed. It dropped my nitrates really quick; perhaps too quick a change.
-The flow in my tank (different tank) at the time sucked. I think excellent flow is a must when doing this.
-My protein skimmer sucked. It was one of those Coralife super-skimmers. My current skimmer would slurp up the excess bacteria much more effectively.
-I had to stop using the crap because I ran out of it.

The product was just too expensive for what it essentially is. So, I would go with vodka if I do it again. There might even be some added benefits from dosing vodka in that you will get a ton of bacterioplankton. Some of the corals we're interested in keeping may very well eat that.

 

[ziggy222]

i heard the vodka method was a little risky cause it can be unstable at times.if you do use the vodka method though i also heard your better off using surgar.just some things i've read but its not for me so i did'nt save articles or anything.

 

[Kreeger1]

Ziggy, thanks for your input. Are you keeping non photo corals? If so what ones?

I'm aware of the risks involved with vodka, and I don't really see them as risks for my tank though.

swiftia pic from my old tank

 

[dendro982]

aninjaatemyshoe:
I could only wish, that other NPC keepers posted such detailed descriptions of their systems! Thanks!
When you will have a photo with new flow (PH pointed down) in the tank, post, please.

Kreeger1:
Can you post pictures of the growing gorgonians (before and after) and share tips, what may contribute to their actual growth? Only yellow polyped menella and swiftia are growing, or other NPC too?
Thanks.

 

[Kreeger1]

not the best shot for to show grow but it does show it in a way. The coal isn't open in the second pic, I took the pic to show the bite mark from my orange spotted rabbit fish I need to remove from the tank. But you can clearly see that it has encrusted the plug and looks to have put on 3/4 of a inch or more in length.

I contribute all success to these corals by having the right amount of flow. I piece of food will travel 7 inches in one second. Thats the flow mark to shot for. The food I feed place a major role as well.
old tank shot

new tank closed up with bite mark

 

[Kreeger1]

Feather star pic, He hangs out in a cave in the back of the tank. This species comes out at night so its hard to get a good shot of him.

Dendros just starting to open up when I added food to the tank.

 

[Kreeger1]

pretty cool link I stumbled across

http://www.marineaquarium.nl/nonphotomovies.php

Nice video of a dendro tank

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Not much has changed since I moved my Tunzes down on the left (they are near the bottom of the tank, not pointed downwards). However, since I've stopped having them alternate and have all Tunzes working together, the flow in my tank seems much more vigorous. The flow pattern is basically clockwise with respect to the front of the tank.

This is the updated pic of my tank, also including the top of the tank with my fans and light fixture.

Here is a side view:

I'm still having trouble getting my sclero to open. I'm going to just be patient for the moment and see if the new flow and feeding do something. It is showing some signs of opening. Here is a bad pic, but you can see part of it is starting to open in the back:

 

[Kreeger1]

Your scerlo looks like its on the right track! Give it another week I but it opens up within that time


Saturday works for me, pm'ing you my address
Erik

 

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Well, my sclero just started to open up more (hows that for patience):

It started opening up at the same exact time my Neospongodes opened up. I'm starting to wonder what is causing this. Since I got it, the Neospongodes has consistently inflated and deflated throughout the day. Since it has been showing some growth and doing well, I haven't really questioned it. My other two Neospongodes do the same thing. Is this just something that Neptheidae corals do? I'm wondering if it could be a reaction to another coral I have in the tank. It seems to occur mostly in the day...

Neospongodes (pic taken at same time):

 

[Kreeger1]

Is that the frag you got from me? The Neospongodes?