Noob turning fresh tank to reef

[Oiler3535]

Hi all! Background (question below): So I got my first aquarium about 2.5 years ago. I wanted to see if I could care for a tank well enough; I did fresh water first so the failure costs would be lower. I've successfully kept nearly all fish alive (I discovered my female bushynose pleco will kill any other algae eaters including other BNs), so am ready to move on to what I really want to do, which is a coral sustaining tank. I was originally going to keep my fresh tank going until my angels succumbed, but I am likely moving a good distance next spring/summer and with my local store willing to buy/take my fresh stock, I think I'll use it as an excuse to switch over.

Besides a better light (any reasonably priced LEDs good enough for corals?), is there anything I absolutely have to do/know? I'll obviously research how to best cycle it to start and necessary testing kits/additives. I've got a 46G bowfront that is about 18" tall, 12" deep and 24" wide. Do I need a protein skimmer for sure? I've got a canister filter that produces a good current near the top of the tank (I've made a big diffuser bc my African butterfly doesn't like current). My long term goal is to have a tall live rock on both ends, with layers of Montipora halfway up on each sticking out toward the middle, corals above them that need the faster current, and corals below that do not. Then on the floor in the middle a mixture of things on smaller live rocks for the few fish I'll get (thinking couple of cardinals, a fire fish and a clown for my wife). Any corals I absolutely can't have near each other or in the same tank at all? I'm completely ignorant of marine/reef necessities so am happy for any and all advice. Get my fish in before starting on corals? Add only 1-2 frags at a time? No idea on anything.

 

[asting]

You don't need a protein skimmer, but it can certainly help. With low fish stocking, you could probably get away without it.

Canisters are not very popular with saltwater as they can quickly become detritus traps.

You'll also need additional flow - a few powerheads in the tank will do the job. Jeboa powerhead are pretty awesome budget wave makers.

You'll want to keep the long sweeping corals clear of others for the most part (hammers, frogspawn, etc.) as they can sting the crap out of other things.

You can add the fish and coral in whatever order you'd like. Just be aware that as you cycle, it will be easier to sustain the fish after than it will the coral. As you add fish your bio load will increase and water quality can dip slightly while your tank adjusts. Coral add much less, especially when you are discussing frags.

 

[Oiler3535]

Thanks for the reply. When you say canisters are detritus traps, what exactly do you mean? If it just means I need to clean it more often that's not a problem; my canister is easy to get at and only takes 5 minutes to clean out. Weekly cleanings won't bother me.

For flow, my filter pumps strongly enough that without my diffuser on it'll go across the entire tank width no problem. If I put the outflow at the bottom of the tank aimed at the curved front it should have a nice circulation down there. Then put an oscillating powerhead up top in the middle to roil up the top? Or would 2 smaller ones aimed at each other so the meet in the middle be better? My long term goal is 2 towers of live rock/coral at either end with smaller rocks on the bottom in the middle.

 

[MuShu]

Check out media reactors. You can set up your canister as more of a media reactor and that will help prevent it from becoming a nitrate factory.

 

[xREEFINaintEZx]

Hello and welcome. Test kits... Get yourself the salifert or read sea test kits. If you extra $$$ look into the Hanna checkers. Read about dkh and how it keeps other parameters stable. Just go slow, research everythibg and you'll be fine.

 

[schnebbles]

I'm contemplating this same thing. I've been told by many that the canister can somehow hold nitrates so I'm ditching it if I move forward. Last night I was told a HOB aquaclear would be better, along with a HOB protein skimmer if I don't do a sump.

 

[Sk8r]

Marine tanks depend on bacteria living in rock and sand to take nitrate and break it all the way down to nitrogen gas, which then floats to the surface. If you have a sponge, bioballs, wet-dry, or filter in the system, the gunk that decays to nitrate just stops at nitrate, which will kill corals, and which fish don't like that much.

If you have NO filter, the sand and rock do their thing, nitrate > nitrogen gas and leaves the tank; and any amino acid waste from protein is collected as froth in the skimmer cup, which is the only thing you have to clean and empty---usually just a tiny turn and lift free, take to sink, toss, and wipe---every few days in a mature system. But it's a lot less messy than coping with filters; and your water is way cleaner. If ammonia itself gets loose in the decomposition chain, say, because your tank's biosystem isn't set up properly, while corals may survive a little ammonia, fish won't. So at either end, just put your freshwater gear in a box and prepare to get a sump, downflow box, skimmer, new lights, and 2 lbs lacy live rock (the holes are important) per gallon of tank. Your sump holds your inflow hose, your return pump and hose, your skimmer, which itself may have a 1'x1' footprint, your heater, your autotopoff rig (which keeps the salinity steady) and your return pump with 'up' hose. You also need an ato (autotopoff) reservoir of fresh water that's come through a ro/di filter, which you also need. Keep a list of these buzz words and ask about brands, sizes, recommendations, etc.

There are reef-ready tanks which have a factory-installed downflow box that is neater than a hang-on box, but both work. Just the factory-installed doesn't have siphon tubes to mess with. Some drill their own tanks and glue in a box, but tempered glass can leave you with a lapful of glass chips if you drill a tempered panel. BRands of tank differ as to where tempered glass is and is not.

The flow for a marine reef is generally stronger, all the way up to gale force. In my 50 gallon I used a 950 gph pump and it was nicely balanced for stony corals---didn't blow the large-polyp (lps) too hard and was enough for the small-polyp.

Light is critical: if you start with an LED system, be SURE it's really adequate for your reef---we have a whole section in the stickies about how to pick your lights, v what you want to keep.

 

[Sk8r]

THere is, for a starter, a 300.00 alternative (roughly) called an 'all-in-one.' They're little thirty-gallon tanks, which means you can't have tangs, angels, etc, pretty well limits you to blennies, gobies, and basslets, maybe a small jawfish or clown pair---but they come with all equipment and lights, and will handle soft coral. It's a self-contained package. Once you're sure this hobby is for you, you can then put it up for sale and get (sometimes) a much larger system off one of the online list-it services. By then you will have learned brand names and know what's good and what's not-so, and whether the blue tang that comes with that 100 gallon tank is really a good deal (it's not.) THis is a good way to go if you live where there's a lot of people in the hobby (hence a lot of choices near you of systems to buy). If you're one house 400 miles from all other civilization and fish stores, not so much.

 

[Oiler3535]

THere is, for a starter, a 300.00 alternative (roughly) called an 'all-in-one.' They're little thirty-gallon tanks, which means you can't have tangs, angels, etc, pretty well limits you to blennies, gobies, and basslets, maybe a small jawfish or clown pair---but they come with all equipment and lights, and will handle soft coral. It's a self-contained package. Once you're sure this hobby is for you, you can then put it up for sale and get (sometimes) a much larger system off one of the online list-it services. By then you will have learned brand names and know what's good and what's not-so, and whether the blue tang that comes with that 100 gallon tank is really a good deal (it's not.) THis is a good way to go if you live where there's a lot of people in the hobby (hence a lot of choices near you of systems to buy). If you're one house 400 miles from all other civilization and fish stores, not so much.

Appreciate the input. However, just 2.5 years ago I spent a ton (for me) of money on everything for a tank and no chance my wife is okay with starting over. Plus, will be moving to a place almost 2 hours drive from the nearest real fish store and city. I'm hoping to be able to slowly build up my stock so that a good LED light is my main beginning expense.

 

[lockdown52]

As for a less expensive light that will give you all that you need for coral retention and growth, go to Ebay. They have a couple of different brands of 165 watt LED lights for $100.

 

[Oiler3535]

As for a less expensive light that will give you all that you need for coral retention and growth, go to Ebay. They have a couple of different brands of 165 watt LED lights for $100.

I'll definitely look there! My tank is 46g bowfront and 36wide, 20"high, and 15ish deep. How much lighting do I need? Will the glass cover I have for the tank stop any of the intensity? Should I remove it if I clean the light regularly to keep salt down?

 

[asting]

I'll definitely look there! My tank is 46g bowfront and 36wide, 20"high, and 15ish deep. How much lighting do I need? Will the glass cover I have for the tank stop any of the intensity? Should I remove it if I clean the light regularly to keep salt down?

Glass will lead to a slight reduction. A more significant issue may be heat, as you may need to run without the glass to increase evap and lower the temp.

With a 46 bow front, one of the "165w" fixtures likely won't give enough coverage. The bow front is 36" long, right? You could try removing the optics and running closer to the water. The outcome may just be that you carefully place your high light corals closer to the center of the tank.

Also, the 165w fixtures are 5x11 (array size), and the 180w are 6x10. I have a 20Long and went with the 5x11 for the greater length.

 

[Oiler3535]

Glass will lead to a slight reduction. A more significant issue may be heat, as you may need to run without the glass to increase evap and lower the temp.

With a 46 bow front, one of the "165w" fixtures likely won't give enough coverage. The bow front is 36" long, right? You could try removing the optics and running closer to the water. The outcome may just be that you carefully place your high light corals closer to the center of the tank.

Also, the 165w fixtures are 5x11 (array size), and the 180w are 6x10. I have a 20Long and went with the 5x11 for the greater length.

The plan is to have large live rock columns on each side so might be able to get away with not 36" wide coverage bc I'll have the high light corals near the middle.

 

[colodano]

For a good cost and decent amount of light for that size tank, I would look into the Marsaqua 300w led lights. There is a huge thread on them, and many people are very happy with them, myself included.

 

[Oiler3535]

For a good cost and decent amount of light for that size tank, I would look into the Marsaqua 300w led lights. There is a huge thread on them, and many people are very happy with them, myself included.

Good pointer! Checked out the thread (well, a few pages of it!) and looks good. Saw a comment on Amazon that it went on sale for 99 at one point. Even though was American, even with shipping and exchange here to Canada I'll have to keep an eye out over the winter and see if I can find it on sale again before I need it next summer!

 

[Oiler3535]

I asked an engineer friend of mine about making my own LED array and he said it was very easy to make, but LeDs themselves are expensive enough to make it not really worth it. Interesting to think about though. He found me 3 companies in Canada that sold them and without buying hundreds of each wavelength, it's about a dollar per light at cheapest, so really not worthwhile. I'm sure you could find them cheaper somewhere, but with shipping/quality concerns I think I'll just spend the winter looking online regularly for deals.

 

[Bugboy2020]

Check out Rapid LED's. They seem to have decent prices on individual LEDs.

 

[Oiler3535]

Check out Rapid LED's. They seem to have decent prices on individual LEDs.

Unless I'm looking in wrong place, they're over $3 USD per 3w LED.

 

[Oiler3535]

If I'm promising to invest and take care of my 46g tank, what is my stocking limit? I'm seeing people say everything down to 1" of fish per 10gal. Which is 1 fish for me. My ideal beginner fish list is:
2 ocelaris (sic) for my wife
2 PJ Cardinals
2 Bangai Cardinals
1 tailspot Glenn young
1 firefish goby
1 Royal Gramma

Any good mix? I'll only add 1 species per month max.

 

[nereefpat]

It would be easier if there was a simple "inches per gallon" rule.

It really comes down to three things:

1. Tank size requirements for each individual fish
2. Compatibility among fishes
3. How much water quality issues you are willing to deal with.

Your list would make your tank pretty full. Each fish is fine for your tank size. I'm not sure if you will have issues with the different cardinal species. Also Cardinals, if they don't pair up, may not tolerate each other. I would add the firefish first, and hopefully the clowns or gramma don't chase it out of the tank.