NOT again....

[ArtemisGoldfish]

I posted the below recently in another thread which I think demonstrates why quarantine is the only accepted approach.

Let me put this way. Name a single recognized authority or cite to a single published article or book which does not strongly recommend quarantine of every fish. You cannot because they do not exist.

Conversely, I can cite to more recognized authoriites, articles, and books which all unanimously recommend the quarantine of every fish than can be posted in a single message on RC.

Likewise, name a single public aquarium or zoo which does not quarantine every fish. You cannot because they all do.

What does this demonstrate? It demonstrates that every recognized authority in this hobby recommend the quarantine of every fish. For those who disagree, I guess you know more than every recognized authority, published article, book, public aquarium, or zoo in the world.

Moreover, I strongly suggest that those who are recommending to others not to quarantine seriously consider the ramifications of their advice. It is one thing if you choose to knowingly take a risk and not quarantine your fish. It is another matter when you advise someone else not to quarantine their fish, particularlly when you do so in a misleading way like stating that experience has shown that quarantine is more detrimental to fish than not quarantining or that quarantine is too difficult or costly to accomplish. The distinction here is you are causing a less experienced hobbyiest to risk the very lives of their pets under false pretenses, particulally when all (and not just some) of the authoritative data points to quarantining fish. I find such behavior immoral and wrong.

On point.

Regarding tact, facts should be taken for what they are. When someone repeatedly refutes facts with garbage, logical fallacies and ad hominem, more stern methods must be used to hammer home the point at least to those that may read the thread wondering about the quarantine process. I'm not selling anything, nor do I care to. What I stated previously is the overall method that should be followed for quarantine and why. Attempts to refute this have failed.

 

[thirst]

You never attempted to address the issue in a cordial and friendly manner. Even if you do know the "right" way, which I am in no way arguing for or again, there's a certain level of humility and respect that we all should treat one another. Your condescending tone and metaphors that puts down other people is no better than being misinformed about the correct husbandry of marine fish.

 

[ArtemisGoldfish]

You never attempted to address the issue in a cordial and friendly manner. Even if you do know the "right" way, which I am in no way arguing for or again, there's a certain level of humility and respect that we all should treat one another. Your condescending tone and metaphors that puts down other people is no better than being misinformed about the correct husbandry of marine fish.

It isthe right way however and I owe no one humility or respect just because they participate on an internet message board let alone someone who participates in unethical practices regarding the safety and well-being of a dependent third party. Respect is earned, not given just because.

Telling someone they're wrong and stating why isn't condescending nor does it equate to giving someone misinformation. 2 + 2 equates to 4 regardless of the tone that it's stated. Let's have a thicker skin please.

 

[Stuart60611]

It isthe right way however and I owe no one humility or respect just because they participate on an internet message board let alone someone who participates in unethical practices regarding the safety and well-being of a dependent third party. Respect is earned, not given just because.

Telling someone they're wrong and stating why isn't condescending nor does it equate to giving someone misinformation. 2 + 2 equates to 4 regardless of the tone that it's stated. Let's have a thicker skin please.

Although we may see eye to eye on a substantive basis on this issue, I am afraid that is about as far as it goes. On a hobbyiest forum like RC, you are, indeed, both in theory and in actuality according to the express terms of its rules required to show everyone here "respect". Noone here is required to earn your respect, and you must show it to all who participate. If you would like, we can ask a moderator here to confirm this fact. There is absolutely no need to be insulting to make your point, and intelligent people are usually able to engage in civil discourse without personal attacks.

 

[tcmfish]

I believe all new additions should be quarantined, but don't normally post on the topic because of people who think QT sucks. They just do it wrong. And this thread is proof of such, look at the response goldfish got after trying to help. It gets old defending yourself time in and time out to those who won't look at the other side of the story.

I think artemisgoldfish, did a good job explaining himself in the beginning and got flamed for it, after that why does he have to respect anyone?

 

[tcmfish]

DBL post.

 

[Stuart60611]

I believe all new additions should be quarantined, but don't normally post on the topic because of people who think QT sucks. They just do it wrong. And this thread is proof of such, look at the response goldfish got after trying to help. It gets old defending yourself time in and time out to those who won't look at the other side of the story.

I think artemisgoldfish, did a good job explaining himself in the beginning and got flamed for it, after that why does he have to respect anyone?

Because the rules here require it. I have not read every post in this thread, but I am very comfortable stating that artemisgoldfish's recent posts have gone way past what is appropriate. Who is he to demand that people here earn his respect, or he otherwise will not communicate civilly. I, for one, would like to know what I have to do to earn his respect so that I am allowed the privilege of not being personally insulted by him. I suspect a prerequisite is to agree with him (which, ironically, I do). I don't care how much you disagree you do not have the right to disrespect anyone here!

Now back to our regularlly scheduled programing...:rolleye1:

 

[hottuna]

"While it's only the Diver's Den fish that get that treatment, it's still considerable. Yes they charge more for those fish, but those fish also have a stellar reputation"

I was told by a rep at Live Aquaria - that the california facility is now using a similar QT process.

 

[billsreef]

It wasn't just one person on one side of the argument, so let's drop that particular subject and move on.

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

It isthe right way however and I owe no one humility or respect just because they participate on an internet message board let alone someone who participates in unethical practices regarding the safety and well-being of a dependent third party. Respect is earned, not given just because.

Telling someone they're wrong and stating why isn't condescending nor does it equate to giving someone misinformation. 2 + 2 equates to 4 regardless of the tone that it's stated. Let's have a thicker skin please.

Goldfish you're way out of line and need a reality check on the issue of respect. Coming onto RC and knocking people down with your childish metaphors is very immature and flat out pathetic. Obviously the majority of people on here think the information you provided to us is useless by how your addressed it to the real world. Give us your first hand experience and not fester up some dated articles...then we can talk! :wave:

 

[Stuart60611]

Goldfish you're way out of line and need a reality check on the issue of respect. Coming onto RC and knocking people down with your childish metaphors is very immature and flat out pathetic. Obviously the majority of people on here think the information you provided to us is useless by how your addressed it to the real world. Give us your first hand experience and not fester up some dated articles...then we can talk! :wave:

Now, how is this post and some of your other posts any better? Calling other people's contributions here "pathetic" or "childish" does not add any value to the discussion. You definitely do not speak for the majority of people here because the majority of people here do not behaive as rudely as you do.

I am very disappointed with the RC moderators in how poorly they have handled this thread. I have seen them many times before crack down on far less extreme repeated violations of this forum's rules. Allowing these repeated violations of this forum's rules (even after being warned to stop doing so more than once) through name calling and personal attacks without any meaningful intervention has created an atmosphere where it outright impossible to have an intelligent debate on this complex issue. It is a shame because I, like many others here, enjoy discussing and debating such topics and are always interested in learning more and exploring other viewpoints. I do not see how that is possible in this environment. Who is going to want to post something here and contribute to the discussion when doing so potentially subjects them to name calling and personal attacks? It is very disappointing.

 

[billsreef]

I am very disappointed with the RC moderators in how poorly they have handled this thread. I have seen them many times before crack down on far less extreme repeated violations of this forum's rules. Allowing these repeated violations of this forum's rules (even after being warned to stop doing so more than once)

I don't see how not one, but two public warnings to all involved is "allowing" repeated violations. I also only see only two people that continued after my second warning. It's a shame to have to close a thread. I tried hard to steer everyone back in the right direction and to drop the bickering, but sadly I see it's not to be and I must drop hammer.