Not Sure How To Handle This

[krzyphsygy]

Hey All,

So 27 days ago, I bought 3 Blue Chromis and placed them in QT for my new display not set up yet. Around the first 2-3 days they were in QT I thought i diagosed them with Ich so I started to began a Hypo treatment and started to drop SG. The first 24hrs I dropped it from 1.026 to 1.020. The fish were eating very vigorously and behaving fine. In the first 3 days before dropping SG I saw only 1 flash by one fish. I continued feeding Zoe, aminos, and garlic, 2 x a day. From the time I went to 1.020 the ich was gone...no signs and there has been no signs at all since then. I never dropped SG any further i just kept it at 1.020 So tomorrow will make 4 weeks in QT and no signs of the ich being present.
Either I miss diagnosed or they developed and immunity to it. They have another 2 weeks or more in there and I am not sure if I should treat them or not? I put them through prevenative Prazipro and things are fine.
I guess I am just scared adding them to the display because I thought they had it. Maybe I was just wrong? Thoughts are appreciated.

Would a 1 week or 2 week cuppramine treatment be sufficent for prevenative?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Tough call. many things are mistaken for ich; but if you've seen ich before, you'd know it. Copper for just two weeks is a waste of time, IMO and you never had the SG low enough to hurt any ich. The foods your feeding are fine but none (including garlic ) do anything to control ich. Why did you stop the hypo? Its very common for ich to disappear during treatment; but that only means you don't see white spots and the ich is is another of its life-cycle stages. BTW, the white spot is not the actual parasite. Generally; when ich isn't seen for at least 4 weeks; you're good to go. But, because not all ich parasites play by the rules; I'd give it more time. Personally; if I thought this was ich; I'd treat with tank-transfer or copper. Everyone will have an opinion; but only you can decide if you saw ich and are you willing to take a big chance. I wouldn't.

 

[krzyphsygy]

I stopped the hypo because I thought I miss diagnosed and if i did'nt I knew in a few days I would see it again and then I would reconviene the treatment.

They will be in QT for a few more weeks...but I do have a question. How long is it to be safe with these guys? Another words lets say they do have it, when is it safe to say that they dont?

 

[cngreg]

I think cupramine for 2 weeks is enough to break the life cycle of specifically cryptocaryon just as long as you acclimate them to your display strait from copper (thus not allowing for any of the encyced stages which are cupramine immune to pop and let their infective stages attach during a copper lull in your qt tank). The stage on the fish only lasts 3 to 5 days (8 days max but a rare exception) and then it falls off. This is why the tank switching method works; you keep leaving the drop-offs behind as you moe the fish. In copper treatment, if you have cupramine running at the right levels, you are ich free as soon as that last clinger (trophont) drops off because the fish are warded the whole time to reinfection by additional parasites via the drug killing the swimming tomites ( the infective stage).

 

[krzyphsygy]

I guess this is how ich gets into your system even though you QT. Maybe thats why some people say all tanks have ich? Some fish go through QT with no signs and then once they get stressed, it comes out. Fish is healthy, but the system still has it then an outbreak.

Hopeless almost...uuugggghhhh. Trying to stay positive. Maybe just get all my fish from ORA, no middle man, just right into my QT. Then no disease.

Mr. Tuskfish, Ok I can not find explicit details on the tank transfer method so I have a few questions. They say move the fish in the early morning because the parasites fall off during the night.
1) How do we know for sure they all fell off and I am not just moving ich from one tank to the next? I READ ALL THE STICKIES BTW
2) If moving in the am, lets say 6am. Should I go into a dark room and turn on lights and quickly catch them. I am trying to surprise the parasite before it attaches correct?
3) So I catch all three and move to a 5gl bucket, areated and heated. For how long do they stay there while I clean the QT tank? When do I put them back in?

 

[krzyphsygy]

Here's a thought, could the reason the ugly ich has not shown its face is because I run my QT off of ambiant sunlight? I only use a aquarium light for about 30min a day. Other than that I let the sunlight in to light the tank.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I guess this is how ich gets into your system even though you QT. Maybe thats why some people say all tanks have ich? Some fish go through QT with no signs and then once they get stressed, it comes out. Fish is healthy, but the system still has it then an outbreak.

Hopeless almost...uuugggghhhh. Trying to stay positive. Maybe just get all my fish from ORA, no middle man, just right into my QT. Then no disease.

Mr. Tuskfish, Ok I can not find explicit details on the tank transfer method so I have a few questions. They say move the fish in the early morning because the parasites fall off during the night.
1) How do we know for sure they all fell off and I am not just moving ich from one tank to the next? I READ ALL THE STICKIES BTW
2) If moving in the am, lets say 6am. Should I go into a dark room and turn on lights and quickly catch them. I am trying to surprise the parasite before it attaches correct?
3) So I catch all three and move to a 5gl bucket, areated and heated. For how long do they stay there while I clean the QT tank? When do I put them back in?

Snorvich is the expert on TT. I'm sure he'll find this. I've just used it once, but have been learning all I can about it for quite a while. I know the life cycle of ich quite well and TT just makes sense. Re: Your Q. #1. You never know you have gotten all the ich, no matter what method you use. But, repeated transfers greatly increases the odds on every move. There is no way of knowing when a parasite entered the fish, so no way to be sure its due to fall off. And all the parasites just don't play nice and follow the rules. If they did, parasite control would be easy and 100% effective. Unfortunatly, it isn't. But you can get pretty darn close. BTW, the people who say all tanks have ich are simply wrong. Most long-term healthy tanks don't; you just don't hear about them.

 

[krzyphsygy]

Well I guess if you think about it, when the fish are in the holding centers in the distribution with hundreds of other fish, and they are constantly cycling in and out more fish....the disease must live in every tank because even if one fish had it, the others would two. So I think that is what is meant by every tank has it, it might not show its face, but if in our tanks other fish can get it why would'nt that be true at the distributers?

I read on here that people QT fish that end up in the display with ich years later because of sudden events that happen in the tank.

Anyway off topic I guess. Just a rant, i hate this disease, i mean mine have not shown any signs for 4 weeks and I am still nervous.

So how long do you think I safely have to rule it out?

 

[MrTuskfish]

Usually,you're safe when fish in a QT show no signs of ich for 4 weeks; including the "invisible signs'', like flashing, rapid breathing, etc. A DT with ich should go fishless for 10-12 weeks to get close to the elusive "100%" point. When I see ich in my QT; I always go a week past my normal schedule just to observe. I have never seen ich return at this point. But, it can. I simply do all I can to increase the odds of success.

The most frustrating deal with ich, IMO, is that nothing is 100% when it comes to killing or preventing it. Yes, people have ich reappear when all the info says it shouldn't. But that isn't the norm; ich is almost always eradicated when proven methods are followed to the letter. Most distributors, shippers, online dealers (including DD) and many LFS run copper 24/7/365. This does not eliminate all parasites, but it sure helps. A religiously followed QT regimen will almost always catch ich before it gets into the DT; you just don't hear the success stories. I have not seen ich in any of my DTs in many years; that isn't blowing my horn, I've learned how to keep it out from others. IMO & IME; the intangibles that come from years of experience dealing with parasites helps too. Also IMO & IME; copper, hypo, and other preventative measures are very demanding. there is no room for error and I think little mistakes cause the failure of many (not all) cases of ich treatment failures. I think ich treatment also is more likely to fail because of impatience, the idea that a QT and treatment is "stressful" to the fish, substituting "reef-safe" voodoo cures for proven methods, cross-contamination of nets, etc., the frustration of not having a QT/HT ready and cycled , then dealing with the inevitable ammonia problem, etc., etc. I know many long-time SW hobbyists who I often ask for advice and ich just isn't an issue with any of them. They deal with it in a QT precisely and don't make mistakes or deviate. An ich-free tank should be the norm, and it can be.

 

[krzyphsygy]

Nicely put! So the process I was thinking of doing on my next arrivals in QT was to simply take down the QT tank before they arrive and clean it along with all the QT eqiupment. I was thinking a good fresh water rinse followed by a vinegar soak for 24hrs should do the trick.
I will just reset up each time with freshly cleaned equipment. I have seeded filter sponges on hand and will just put them in when I set up. Test for a couple days and in they go.