Ocellaris acting strange

[Red Eyed Reefer]

More background information found on this thread, First Build - 55 gallon mixed reef , at start of post #9


Concerned:

The larger clown (who was having clamped pelvic and dorsal fins) has begun hanging at the surface, refused to eat offerings (in small quantities) of:

Frozen Mysis
Frozen Brine
Frozen Krill
Cyclops-eeze
Pellets (w/garlic)
Prime Reef flake


The smaller clown eats the small mysis, particles from the krill and brine and the tiny prime reef flakes.


Now as I am watching the smaller clown eat, my girlfriend goes "what is that coming out of Wilfred" (the larger) and I look and there is a long stringy white poop hanging out, and it stayed there for about 5 minutes before finally finishing the passing.

So is this the start of an infection or just stress? Weird behavior that I noticed started after the water change, in the one fish only.

No eye cloudiness
No white spots
No mouth fungus
No "slime" coat


Yes clamped fins
Yes refusal of food
Yes lethargic swimming at surface
Yes speradic swimming motions


MAYBE rubbing (I have seen him rub in the sand bed twice since getting him, like a flip on the side)


Anyone have any ideas? I will post this in the disease section as well... :uhoh2:

At night, he returns to the bottom to sleep with the little guy....

...thinking of getting some formalin and prepping for a hyposalinty QT treatment regiment.

 

[HumbleFish]

"Long stringy white poop" is a symptom of both internal or intestinal parasites. I would treat with Prazipro. You can safely use that medication in your DT.

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

Where do I get PraziPro? Went to one of my LFS last night and browsed medications, didn't see PraziPro, and I was infact looking for it since I saw it being recommended in searches on this forum for similar issues.

I'm sure I can get it overnighted if needed?

 

[HumbleFish]

You can find it on Amazon or one of the online fish places. I found it here and here for you. It's frustrating how a lot of these LFS refuse to carry any real medications, but always have plenty of "Herbtana" in stock. Almost like they don't want you to cure what's ailing the fish once & for all. :spin3:

 

[snorvich]

You can find it on Amazon or one of the online fish places. I found it here and here for you. It's frustrating how a lot of these LFS refuse to carry any real medications, but always have plenty of "Herbtana" in stock. Almost like they don't want you to cure what's ailing the fish once & for all. :spin3:

Well if one were cynical, one can create a scenario where that would be to their advantage. Good advice, as always.

:sad2:

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

You can find it on Amazon or one of the online fish places. I found it here and here for you. It's frustrating how a lot of these LFS refuse to carry any real medications, but always have plenty of "Herbtana" in stock. Almost like they don't want you to cure what's ailing the fish once & for all.

Good call on Amazon...

BRS overnight shipping is 65 bucks, Amazon's is only 20... plus since I'm a member all it took was one-click and it's on the way :thumbsup:

Should be able to get treatment started tomorrow after work, assuming I still have a fish by then... :uhoh2: I will still treat the small one as a precautionary measure.

And I agree with snorvich... sell medications that don't "work"... need more medications $$$... fish eventually dies... get another fish $$$... $$$

I think the "$$$" is what drives this vicious cycle some LFS are hoping to kickstart :angryfire:

 

[HumbleFish]

And I agree with snorvich... sell medications that don't "work"... need more medications $$$... fish eventually dies... get another fish $$$... $$$

I think the "$$$" is what drives this vicious cycle some LFS are hoping to kickstart :angryfire:

I agree 100%. And honestly, this is partially why I am active on this forum. To neutralize misinformation which gouges the consumer. I don't make a penny whether you buy Herbtana or Cupramine. It just burns my *** to see people getting ripped off.

 

[snorvich]

I agree 100%. And honestly, this is partially why I am active on this forum. To neutralize misinformation which gouges the consumer. I don't make a penny whether you buy Herbtana or Cupramine. It just burns my *** to see people getting ripped off.

Likewise. And it is why I have answered the Check Out Your Fish Thread for over four years (over 10,000 replies). I hate seeing people getting ripped off. And I hate seeing fish die for no reason. Ok, [\rant]

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

I agree 100%. And honestly, this is partially why I am active on this forum. To neutralize misinformation which gouges the consumer. I don't make a penny whether you buy Herbtana or Cupramine. It just burns my *** to see people getting ripped off.

Agreed! That is why I joined this forum and asked here first... I know there a lot of people who have been through the LFS loops to find what does and doesn't work, waiting to help out us new comers :beer:

Do you recommend following the instructions of the PraziPro? My tank is a 55, but I figure I have 40-45 gallons of actual water volume.. and planned to treat for only having 35 gallons as to not over dose. Can you overdose with the PraziPro? (not like dump the whole bottle in, but I mean if you were off by like 10-15 gallons) And do the 2 weeks like it says?

Also, two of the live rocks I got have mini feather dusters all over them.. PraziPro says they shouldn't be exposed to this, should I expect them to not make it out of the treatment? :sad2:

One more thing... not so sure about what to do with adding new tank mates later on... How am I sure the parasite/infection/whatever I treated is no longer in the water?
(I plan on doing hyposalinity QTs for 4 weeks for any new additions but what else should I consider?)

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

Likewise. And it is why I have answered the Check Out Your Fish Thread for over four years (over 10,000 replies). I hate seeing people getting ripped off. And I hate seeing fish die for no reason. Ok, [\rant]

I will have to find this thread!

 

[HumbleFish]

Do you recommend following the instructions of the PraziPro? My tank is a 55, but I figure I have 40-45 gallons of actual water volume.. and planned to treat for only having 35 gallons as to not over dose. Can you overdose with the PraziPro? (not like dump the whole bottle in, but I mean if you were off by like 10-15 gallons) And do the 2 weeks like it says?

Prazi is probably one of the safest meds we use, but there have been some anecdotal accounts of fish dying (mostly wrasses) after OD'ing it. So, if I were you, I would dose more on the conservative side with respects to your total water volume. Btw, two doses of Prazi are required. The second 5 days after the first; do a 20-25% WC before administering the second dose.

Also, two of the live rocks I got have mini feather dusters all over them.. PraziPro says they shouldn't be exposed to this, should I expect them to not make it out of the treatment? :sad2:

Very possible. Prazi kills all "worms", including feather dusters/tube worms. (Most of the time... there have been some anecdotal accounts of these surviving Prazi treatment.) Be careful... the resulting die-off from the mini feather dusters could trigger an ammonia spike (depending on just how many we are talking about).

One more thing... not so sure about what to do with adding new tank mates later on... How am I sure the parasite/infection/whatever I treated is no longer in the water?
(I plan on doing hyposalinity QTs for 4 weeks for any new additions but what else should I consider?)

Prazi will eradicate all internal parasites from your fish and the water column. However, it does nothing for external parasites such as Ich (if your fish have them). QT'ing all new fish purchases is a good idea, but I would look into options such as Cupramine or tank transfer instead of hypo if you need to treat for external parasites.

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

Prazi is probably one of the safest meds we use, but there have been some anecdotal accounts of fish dying (mostly wrasses) after OD'ing it. So, if I were you, I would dose more on the conservative side with respects to your total water volume. Btw, two doses of Prazi are required. The second 5 days after the first; do a 20-25% WC before administering the second dose.

Good to know ! I only have the two clowns and three banded torchus snails currently ATM.

Very possible. Prazi kills all "worms", including feather dusters/tube worms. (Most of the time... there have been some anecdotal accounts of these surviving Prazi treatment.) Be careful... the resulting die-off from the mini feather dusters could trigger an ammonia spike (depending on just how many we are talking about).

Probably about like 8... maybe ALL OVER was the wrong description.. but they are small rocks. I don't think I will see an ammonia spike from their die off if it occurs..

Prazi will eradicate all internal parasites from your fish and the water column. However, it does nothing for external parasites such as Ich (if your fish have them). QT'ing all new fish purchases is a good idea, but I would look into options such as Cupramine or tank transfer instead of hypo if you need to treat for external parasites.

Thanks again!

I see no physical signs of ich, yet.. Only had them since Sunday though.

Hopefully I will run the two doses of Prazi and be good to go! I will follow up here and in my tank thread (which the link to it above doesn't work.. oops :smokin: )

First Build - 55 gallon mixed reef

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

Okay so I just got home from work to find the large clown laying on the sand like he was dead. Went to inspect and he stirred and barely could swim. Almost like he was fading in and out, struggling to breath. so I did what I only could think of to do. I grabbed my 2.5 gallons of emergency RO water and got it into a 5 gallon bucket with a spare heater. I knew the ph would be off but I measured, close enough. Once up to temp, I fished him out with a net (which still ended up being a chore) and tossed him in for 8 minutes. Watched him closesly and his fins popped up and his breathing slowed, swimming in place. He is currently back into the DT and swimming fine and active.

I'm not sure what to do here, I'm afraid he won't make it the night or until I get prazipro. Not sure prazipro will even help now? Should I be looking at different treatment options?

:uhoh2:

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

Update:

Still swimming around this morning.. another white stingy poop was present before I left for work.
From what it appears, he never "slept" (usually on the sandbed with the other little one) also seemed to be a little disoriented after the freshwater dip. Still not eating.

PraziPro should be there when I get home, and I will begin treatment ASAP.

I still have not seen any visual problems on the fish.. I'm assuming this still means that it is most likely internal parasites and the Prazi should eradicate them?

I refuse to let this fish die, everyone in my house is now calling me doctor dolittle after my panicked freshwater dip ordeal to help with the troubled breathing.

 

[HumbleFish]

Did you see anything fall off/out of him when you did the f/w dip? Especially around the gills... did you see any tiny white worms fall out?

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

To be honest, I wasn't looking for them and it was in a Home Depot 5 gallon bucket (orange and dark, tough to see). I can say though, that his fins unclamped in the FW and he seemed more energetic.

I see nothing on the exterior of the fish... no lip fungus, no spots, no film, no leasions, no color fading... gills might be swollen?

Mouth is open constantly for the most part making the "puff puff puff" motion (not as dramatic after FW dip)..

Hanging at the surface (not as much since FW dip)...

White poop...

Won't eat..

When I administer the PraziPro, should I watch for worms to fall out as well.. Too confirm the treatment is appropriate? How long after exposure to the PraziPro would it take before the worms passed typically/ see improvements in health? Again to make sure its the correct treatment being applied.

 

[HumbleFish]

IME; Prazipro is pretty fast acting. The fish is usually clear in about 72 hrs. But you still need to do the second dose 5 days after the first to eradicate the "next generation" before they can lay eggs of their own. Prazi only kill worms, not any eggs they might leave behind.

In some rare cases, you may need to apply a formalin bath in lieu of Prazi. You can use "Quick Cure" that is usually available in the pet section of Walmart. I know Newsmyrna80 (flukes expert) had to resort to formalin to knock out a stubborn case of flukes.

The other possible issue is intestinal parasites. Prazi supposedly eradicates those as well, but IME you usually have to resort to metronidazole. A medication called "API General Cure" would be a good choice if you have to end up going this route.

But start with Prazipro for now, and we'll go from there. Prazi usually knocks out the problem, I'd say 90% of the time.

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

IME; Prazipro is pretty fast acting. The fish is usually clear in about 72 hrs. But you still need to do the second dose 5 days after the first to eradicate the "next generation" before they can lay eggs of their own. Prazi only kill worms, not any eggs they might leave behind.

In some rare cases, you may need to apply a formalin bath in lieu of Prazi. You can use "Quick Cure" that is usually available in the pet section of Walmart. I know Newsmyrna80 (flukes expert) had to resort to formalin to knock out a stubborn case of flukes.

The other possible issue is intestinal parasites. Prazi supposedly eradicates those as well, but IME you usually have to resort to metronidazole. A medication called "API General Cure" would be a good choice if you have to end up going this route.

But start with Prazipro for now, and we'll go from there. Prazi usually knocks out the problem, I'd say 90% of the time.

Great! I know my LFS has the API gen cure.. I will get that just in case.

I'm also going to order some formalin, metronidazole, and cupramine (w/ salifert Cu test kit) for future purchases. QT and if anything pops up, I should have the cure.

IYO, what is the best QT method.. I was thinking of doing a standard tank transfer for everyone here on out and get another QT tank up and running. 5 transfers, 1 every 3 days, making the transfer in the morning of the day. This should help elminate ich if its present.. Once the transfers are done, I will watch for a few more weeks for any potential problems.. does this sound like a good approach? Would you also recommend dosing Prazi as a preventitive for internals?

 

[HumbleFish]

Great! I know my LFS has the API gen cure.. I will get that just in case.

I'm also going to order some formalin, metronidazole, and cupramine (w/ salifert Cu test kit) for future purchases. QT and if anything pops up, I should have the cure.

API General Cure is a prazi/metro mix, but I only use it when I strongly suspect intestinal parasites as IME metro can be harsh on the fish. Prazi by itself is relatively mild. Your list looks good; although I would also add a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Furan-2 just in case. Snorvich recently published a comprehensive list of medications here.

IYO, what is the best QT method.. I was thinking of doing a standard tank transfer for everyone here on out and get another QT tank up and running. 5 transfers, 1 every 3 days, making the transfer in the morning of the day. This should help elminate ich if its present.. Once the transfers are done, I will watch for a few more weeks for any potential problems.. does this sound like a good approach? Would you also recommend dosing Prazi as a preventitive for internals?

Tank transfer is an excellent QT protocol. I use it often. Hvacman250 (below) lays out TT perfectly. I apply Prazi at the onset of transfers 2 & 4, so that's knocked out. But you still need to watch out for things like Velvet, Brook, Uronema, bacterial infection after TT is complete. So, I advocate observing for at least another month in QT after TT is complete.

Day 1 - fish in QT.
Day 4 - in AM, but before tank lights come on (8-9 AM EST), transfer fish to new tank, matching temp and salinity. Transfer as little water as possible.
Day 7 - repeat.
Day 10 - repeat.
Day 13 - repeat and done.

After transferring, I sterilized all PVC, heaters, filters/powerheads, thermometer, etc with a mild bleach colution. Rinse well. Let dry before next transfer.

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

API General Cure is a prazi/metro mix, but I only use it when I strongly suspect intestinal parasites as IME metro can be harsh on the fish. Prazi by itself is relatively mild. Your list looks good; although I would also add a broad spectrum antibiotic such as Furan-2 just in case. Snorvich recently published a comprehensive list of medications here.



Tank transfer is an excellent QT protocol. I use it often. Hvacman250 (below) lays out TT perfectly. I apply Prazi at the onset of transfers 2 & 4, so that's knocked out. But you still need to watch out for things like Velvet, Brook, Uronema, bacterial infection after TT is complete. So, I advocate observing for at least another month in QT after TT is complete.

Excellent.. that thread is actually where I got the idea from!

Thank you for answering all my questions, very helpful! :bounce3:

I believe I saw Furan-2 at my LFS as well, so I will grab that with the API gen cure. Also going to check out snovich's list.

I want to stay in this hobby for a while, so I want to do it right :reading:


Will follow up how treatment goes when I get home, making my day at work drag on. (already spent too much time on here today :rolleye1