OD on sugar?

[ebacon]

I've tried bio pellets but they eventually clump and sour so I've recently been dosing sugar in my 400 gallon system for a few weeks when this week a white mist entered the display. Bacteria bloom. So I increased skimmer and 2 days later it cleared, but not before wiping out three sps corals, a mantis, an urchin and a butterfly......

Did I of on sugar? Rtn? No signs of ammonia or nitrites. Nitrates still at 0 ca and kh all within spec......

 

[Digitalelectric]

Why would you dump sugar into a reef tank? Does this ever occur in nature? Answer:No. Bacteria feed on sugar. You induced a bacteria bloom that most likely obliterated your disolved oxygen in the water column.

 

[ebacon]

Sugar, vodka, corn syrup, bio pellets etc... Are all proven forms of growing bacteria for nitrate reduction

 

[Digitalelectric]

Clearly, and now you see the consequences.

 

[MBIETZ]

Clearly, and now you see the consequences.

A lot of people dose sugar, vodka and vinegar with great results there are some amazing sps tank on here that use these methods. I dosed vodka for a little while but it got to be to much work and i can say i found no negative effect but just as anything being added to a reef tank to much always leads to bad things.

 

[Digitalelectric]

Im going to have to research this because that seems like very bad husbandry. Sugar is a fuel source for ALL bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria arent the only bacteria in the tank. You could potentially be forming blooms of harmful/toxic bacteria. Throwing pure fuel into a tank in hopes of just one strain of bacteria blooming is asking for trouble. As we have seen here. Sounds more to me like snake oil. You can clame 1/4 tsp per hundred gallons of Gatorade will promote color in SPS. Then show pics of your amazing SPS tank. This doesnt mean the Gatorade did anything for your corals. It just means you have an otherwise healthy system and just didnt put enough Gatorade into the system to cause ill effects. And then some guy comes along dumps too much in, and loses his tank.

Electrolytes, its what plants craaaaave.

 

[Allmost]

Im going to have to research this

yes, you do.

because that seems like very bad husbandry. Sugar is a fuel source for ALL bacteria. Nitrifying bacteria arent the only bacteria in the tank. You could potentially be forming blooms of harmful/toxic bacteria. Throwing pure fuel into a tank in hopes of just one strain of bacteria blooming is asking for trouble. As we have seen here.

Idea behond Carbon dosing, is to provide the carbon source for all bacteria as you correctly mentioned. bacteria require N, P and C to grow, and become food for corals.



to the OP ..... carbon overdose --> bacteria bloom --> bacteria consume oxygen, and dont let corals breathe. [oxygen strvation] so corals die, from base up.
that is what you withnessed. which is a sign of overdose of the carbon source. you need to start slow, and increase in small increments, untill you reach the equilibrium.

good luck

 

[M88A2]

"And then some guy comes along dumps too much in, and loses his tank."

what part of reefing doesn't this apply to? everything from salt, top off water, additives, food, and fish can nuke your tank. don't be so prodigious about other methods. if no one was willing to explore, there would be no progress. also this is a well documented method.

 

[Digitalelectric]

Ok, theres things a reef tank needs like calcium, magnesium, alk, then theres other stuff that people tinker with like Sugar, vodka, etc. Tinkering things are dangerous because there's no established guidelines and result in death. How is it that its cruel to keep a tang in a 40 gal but its ok in the name of experimenting to wipe out a tank full of life? Theres enough death in this industry, I think advising people to dump something like sugar into a tank which never occurs in nature is reckless. Especially when the purpose of adding the sugar isnt even measurable. Can you tell what the nitrifiying bacteria load is? Was it even low?

 

[Digitalelectric]

Oh and per this thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2102602&highlight=sugar it was also deemed to be a bad idea. Ive been researching for a while now and haven't found anyone recommending it with valid data, let alone pictures.

 

[MBIETZ]

The point in dosing these items is to run a ULN tank and there are quite a few people on here dosing vodka with no problems i personally dont think it is needed but how are we suppose to advance our husbandry with no experimentation? Also your link proves nothing about sugar dosing all it is saying is sugar is not as pure most likely because of the additive that are used in it not that it dosent work but it is just another form of carbon dosing like bio pellets and a lot of people run bio pellets maybe they dont work like you suggest but i think people who run bio pellets would say other wise.

 

[M88A2]

you must have not looked very hard if you haven't found anyone who has dosed carbon and kept a successful tank. and if you aim to keep things totaly "natural", you might wanna put your livestock back in the sea. There is more than one way to keep a tank. Also, I'm pretty sure experiments had to be done before any guidelines were put in place. No one was given sets of instructions when the pull creatures from the sea.

 

[M88A2]

OP, i just notice we totally screwed your thread and for that i am sorry. It does sound like you OD in that the amount if carbon you provided grew far more bacteria than your skimmer was able to pull out.

 

[MikeYQM]

There is NO such thing as natural in any reef tank. Everything is an addition with a goal of achieving an image of nature. There are many natural processes that occur however, carbon dosing is one of those as well.

Every piece of equipment or additive as mentioned can become destructive & kill inhabitants. Carbon dosing is no different. If done right, it can lead to a beautiful & healthy system. And yes, there are established guidelines to follow regardless of your carbon source.

 

[MikeYQM]

To the OP, vodka & vinegar are highly effective & probably more stable in concentration than sugar. I've been dosing vinegar for a while now with decent results. Research how to startup & proceed slowly on the side of caution.

 

[Allmost]

Ok, theres things a reef tank needs like calcium, magnesium, alk, then theres other stuff that people tinker with like Sugar, vodka, etc. Tinkering things are dangerous because there's no established guidelines and result in death. How is it that its cruel to keep a tang in a 40 gal but its ok in the name of experimenting to wipe out a tank full of life? Theres enough death in this industry, I think advising people to dump something like sugar into a tank which never occurs in nature is reckless. Especially when the purpose of adding the sugar isnt even measurable. Can you tell what the nitrifiying bacteria load is? Was it even low?

Oh and per this thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2102602&highlight=sugar it was also deemed to be a bad idea. Ive been researching for a while now and haven't found anyone recommending it with valid data, let alone pictures.

this just shows that you have not looked hard enough

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

 

[MBIETZ]

to the OP sorry for getting side tracked but if you want to carbon dose i would recommend vodka or vinegar as well and i know someone who had the same problem with bio pellets they would clump and sour so he just added a higher gph pump to their reactor and he said i hasent been a problem since and has noticed a huge change in his tank corals are extremely happy and all organics are zero.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Out of the 3 carbon sources (Vinegar, Sugar and Vodka) to reduce nitrates sugar is by far the least pure, you definitely can add other impurities to the tank that may not be beneficial to your reef tank. I personally have been dosing Vodka for 3 years and have never had any problems with a buildup of anything harmful, I even went over 12 months without a water change while dosing.
I was very close to switching over to bio-pellets, I even had the new reactor and pellets ready to go but a more seasoned reefer talked be out of it, for various reasons.

Ebacon,
It is obvious that you overdosed the sugar and caused a bacteria bloom that suffocated your corals, as already mentioned. The link that Allmost posted is a really good way to start carbon dosing, although that gives the schedule for vodka, If you’re adamant about using sugar then the take away from that article is to start slow and gradually ramp up the sugar dosing, while monitoring your nitrates.

 

[Digitalelectric]

Sorry I was so snippy in my posts. I have had a very bad work week. Im not argueing the carbon method, Im argueing sugar. Sugar is pure fuel, not carbon. It seems, by this very example, that it will result in a MASSIVE bacterial bloom in a tank compared to providing a carbon source. Not to mention who knows what sugar goes through in the bleaching process.

 

[ebacon]

Almost, thanks for the link. With regards to the thread, I would rather see a healthy intelligent passionate debate, then watch lemmings jump off a cliff.


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