Official: Masterflex Calcium Reactor Setup Thread

[mntnbighker]

I have found so far after a few months with my setup that my low side regulator is nowhere near stable enough to achieve cruise control. When tank pressure increases due to ambient rise my low side pressure changes as much as 2 PSI "less"? My regulator is highly sensitive to chamber pressure as well. I tried having the dosing pump on the outlet but until I moved it so it pressurizes the chamber the bubble size was all over the place. Generally speaking I find the Aquarium Plants regulator to be nowhere near as stable as I had hoped. The Aquarium Plants guy told me they designed the regulator for fresh water plant setups, and they never once attached one to a salt water tank. They sell them for that purpose, but have never seen one in house. So they have never tested them with a calcium reactor. I found that if the electronic regulator sees even a tiny vacuum, or even zero pressure, the bubble rate won't even coincide with the regulator pulse rate.

 

[gdemos]

for a while I was able to tune things so the solenoid was always On/Open.
but lately it has been cycling on/off; not sure why perhaps ambient conditions or the setup in general

I re-coded my apex to include a defer statement and a time horizon; as I noticed my pH probe was oscillating 6.39 to 6.41. I witnessed this first hand it was jumping back and forth as much as 10x per minute. Neptune suggested the noise and flow in the reactor can cause this and suggested the defer statement.

I am also looking at the assumption that the regulator can handle the cycling power. here's the reg I am running: http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/regulators

here's my apex coding:
Fallback OFF
If pH2 > 6.50 Then ON
If pH2 < 6.40 Then OFF
If pH < 8.00 Then OFF
Defer 000:20 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then OFF

 

[mntnbighker]

I re-coded my apex to include a defer statement and a time horizon; as I noticed my pH probe was oscillating 6.39 to 6.41. I witnessed this first hand it was jumping back and forth as much as 10x per minute. Neptune suggested the noise and flow in the reactor can cause this and suggested the defer statement.

I am also looking at the assumption that the regulator can handle the cycling power. here's the reg I am running: http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/regulators

here's my apex coding:
Fallback OFF
If pH2 > 6.50 Then ON
If pH2 < 6.40 Then OFF
If pH < 8.00 Then OFF
Defer 000:20 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then OFF

Thanks, so I added the defer statement, though I'm not sure I actually need it. My numbers don't fluctuate like yours do. BTW, If I set my low number to 6.4 I would have so much gas flow my circ pump would be cavitating all the time. The best I can do is the 6.5 range. And my pH hovers between 8 and 7.9 so my OFF number is 7.8.

 

[hkgar]

Tkeracer or anyone

Have you any experience with the Eshopps IV 200 Dosing Pump? Would it be a good alternative to a Cole Parmer.

http://www.eshopps.com/products/ivdosingpump/iv200/

I doubt the durability would be as good over a long period, but wonder what the experienced durability is. Maybe it is too new to have results?

 

[hkgar]

for a while I was able to tune things so the solenoid was always On/Open.
but lately it has been cycling on/off; not sure why perhaps ambient conditions or the setup in general

I re-coded my apex to include a defer statement and a time horizon; as I noticed my pH probe was oscillating 6.39 to 6.41. I witnessed this first hand it was jumping back and forth as much as 10x per minute. Neptune suggested the noise and flow in the reactor can cause this and suggested the defer statement.

I am also looking at the assumption that the regulator can handle the cycling power. here's the reg I am running: http://americanmarineusa.com/collections/regulators


here's my apex coding:
Fallback OFF
If pH2 > 6.50 Then ON
If pH2 < 6.40 Then OFF
If pH < 8.00 Then OFF
Defer 000:20 Then ON
Defer 000:20 Then OFF

I don't understand why you are programming on/off statements in Apex? The whole idea of using the peristaltic pump is to maintain a constant PH without switching the regulator on and off.

 

[gdemos]

Sure that is logical, the concern being that without coding the solenoid on apex with a pH range mandates that your bubble count be spot on. Unfortunately I don't have time to monitor and tweak my bubble count as media melts that would call for a very regular check on bubble count. Instead I set the range (a fairly tight range) on pH and let it ride. Worse case there is on and off cycles and the solenoid takes some abuse and my chamber fluctuates within this tight range (not too concerned) That's my logic anyway but ur point is well taken. For me the Masterflex us all about consistency in effluent as I could not sustain any real control on effluent rate without it.

 

[mntnbighker]

I don't understand why you are programming on/off statements in Apex? The whole idea of using the peristaltic pump is to maintain a constant PH without switching the regulator on and off.

I have an absolutely stable effluent rate. My low side regulator pressure and bubble rate vary all over the place. Without pH control my reactor would vary wildly and I would never see anything like a stable dose of calcium/alk. It's possible that if I ditch the Aquarium Plants regulator in favor of a different lab grade regulator this might be possible. But certainly not with my current setup. As far as I can tell, the only variable I am not controlling, and the cause of the fluctuations, is ambient temperature in the room. Bottom line, if you don't have a constant bubble rate you will never have a constant reactor pH.

 

[mntnbighker]

Quick correction.. when I said my bubble "rate" varies, the electronic controller makes the bubble "rate" stable. But my bubble volume varies wildly. I actually believe my electronic regulator may be defective. But the guy at Aquarium Plants is adamant that these regulators are dead reliable, and us reef hobbyists are using them incorrectly. As long as you can drop the tube in a glass of water and see a consistent bubble rate there is nothing wrong with it. I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to stare at the bubbles for 2 or 3 days solid, to see the bubble size change over time with tank temperature (and pressure) changes.

 

[hkgar]

Quick correction.. when I said my bubble "rate" varies, the electronic controller makes the bubble "rate" stable. But my bubble volume varies wildly. I actually believe my electronic regulator may be defective. But the guy at Aquarium Plants is adamant that these regulators are dead reliable, and us reef hobbyists are using them incorrectly. As long as you can drop the tube in a glass of water and see a consistent bubble rate there is nothing wrong with it. I'm just not sure how I'm supposed to stare at the bubbles for 2 or 3 days solid, to see the bubble size change over time with tank temperature (and pressure) changes.

Does the low side pressure vary? My low side pressure is 7 PSI and it just never changes. I also have the Aquarium Plant regulator and absolutely no problems.

 

[mntnbighker]

Does the low side pressure vary? My low side pressure is 7 PSI and it just never changes. I also have the Aquarium Plant regulator and absolutely no problems.

Every time the ambient temperature causes the tank pressure to change, my low side pressure changes too. The most low side pressure I can run is about 4 psi or else the bubble "size" becomes a stream of bubbles in between each pulse. So when the ambient goes up I actually get less low side pressure. If I adjust it, then the low side skyrockets when the tank pressure drops back down.

How much does your ambient vary? Do you have HVAC controlled room temperature? My living room may go from 65F at night to 95F in the day. I have no AC, only heat. But I have a chiller for the tank.

 

[mntnbighker]

Does the low side pressure vary? My low side pressure is 7 PSI and it just never changes. I also have the Aquarium Plant regulator and absolutely no problems.

Based on your using 7psi I decided to try that with the rate dial cranked all the way out to 9 seconds and work back from there. I am now wondering, based on what I saw just now if the electronic regulator runs a lot more stable with a higher C02 pressure. Weirdly it appears my bubble size (volume) is actually smaller at 7psi than it is at 3. I think part of the problem is the hose expansion masks some of the behavior of the electronic regulator. So there is a disconnect between the settings and the observed behavior. In other words the regulator opens and closes, but by the time the pressure wave reaches the reactor another pulse is happening. Of course people using needle valves don't have the slightest idea what we are talking about. :debi:

 

[tkeracer619]

If you want your second stage to stay exactly the same throughout the bottle you need to swap the single stage regulator on the AP out for a two stage. The Harris two stage 15psi regulator is the one you want for that. It's another $250-300. I look at my reg once in a while and adjust the pressure if necessary, it is maybe an adjustment a month at most. If you are leaving the reg on and not using a controller to pulse it, the regulator will get to temp after a day and usually stay there. It creeps as the bottle pressure drops and will also fluctuate based on the temperature of its internal spring.

The gauges AP uses are less than perfect. The actual number does not matter but yes due to the mechanics of a single stage reg it is more accurate at higher pressures. Some regs are more susceptible to this. The one you have may be sensitive.

They are reliable but he is pulling your leg if he says they don't run across issues from time to time. "Not using them correctly" = :lol: :rolleye1: .

Can you post some pics? How long is the run and what kind of tubing are you using?

If you run the reg wide open, it is my observation that as the media dissolves the chamber ph decreases simply dissolving more media. You may find that it runs great how you have it setup but if you cannot get the ph lower maybe it is best if we address that as well?

I've always run my AP reg between 7~15psi but my final goal is ~10psi x whatever the counter is doing.

 

[tkeracer619]

Two Stage Regulator

Two Stage Regulator

The two stage regulator I like to use is the Harris 9200-15-320

Cheapest I've found it was $300 online at weldingsupply but I am sure someone can find a better deal. Post it if you do please

It is big and if you aren't already strapping your bottle you will need to with this reg (you should be anyways). I plan on getting one when I find a good used one but until then I am using the AP single stage.

 

[tkeracer619]

for a while I was able to tune things so the solenoid was always On/Open.
but lately it has been cycling on/off; not sure why perhaps ambient conditions or the setup in general

After you made the adjustments is it still cycling the solenoid? What is your operating ph and what is the cutoff ph?

 

[mntnbighker]

If you want your second stage to stay exactly the same throughout the bottle you need to swap the single stage regulator on the AP out for a two stage. The Harris two stage 15psi regulator is the one you want for that. It's another $250-300.

Thanks for the thoughts.

The bummer is that I don't believe the AP controller is removable unless you buy that version to begin with. So it's a two stage regulator AND another AP controller to swap out the setup. I was very close to buying them separately in the first place.

It appears that after going to 7psi things are much more stable. I am seeing reactor pH in the 6.48 to 6.55 range with far fewer pH controller cycles happening. Going to the higher pressure appears to have been the magic juju. I do wish my reactor was more efficient at forcing the C02 into the effluent though.

 

[tkeracer619]

You can remove the black box from the regulator body. No problems there. Like I said it is a nice to have. For most of us it is insignificant as long as we look at that gauge once in a blue moon.

 

[gdemos]

After you made the adjustments is it still cycling the solenoid? What is your operating ph and what is the cutoff ph?

I slightly decreased bubble count and seems to be back to Always On. I mean a real micro tune. So far so good but I can't always be on top of it

 

[tkeracer619]

Sounds like you are cutting the gas off too soon. Try setting the cut off point .2 below what it is set at now. Mine is set to cut of at 6.1.

 

[hkgar]

Bad regulator?

Bad regulator?

My ph chart the last 24 hours


The high spike is from when I calibrated the probe.

Apparently last night at about 10 PM my reactor ph start diving. Apex shuts down the Aquarium Plants regulator at 6.3 so it never went lower than that.

Low side pressure was 7, flow rate 10 ml/minute, bubble rate 8 seconds. Nothing changed, just the PH start going down.

I now have the low PSI at 4 and the rate 9.5 seconds and at about 6.6. The only ting I can think of that would effect ph would be the size of the bubble. The rate didn't change as I timed the bubbles this AM and it match the setting.

Possibly the tank is starting to run low? Regulator may be bad? It is the standard set of guages that came with the regulator.

 

[cthedaytrader]

This thread has been great and very helpful. I was a little skeptical at first about spending so much on a feed pump, but now that I have I love my MasterFlex Pumps as in plural lol. I ended up picking up two.

I was originally feeding my GEO 510 off my return with a needle valve and it was never really consistent. I have been running this 7523-90 and it has been rock solid, really set it and forget it.

I ended up winning another one, and I was originally just going to sell it but these things are so cool I was trying think of another use for it, and I was thinking about eventually getting a Kalk stirrer and feeding the Kalk stirrer with it rather than using my ATO, I figured that would give me so much more safety and control. Its so cool Id think I would hate to sell it now.

MY 7575-00.