Oil or Water based stain?

chrismhaase

Active member
What is better to us on a DIY stand and Canopy? Water based or oil based stai? I have heard that oil based is better to cover up wood filler and other blemishes and easier to use. Is this true? Also, will oil based stain cover up caulk if it is used?
 
I'd recommend water based on ecological grounds.
Hoping fellow reefers feel the same way... ;)

but I'm curious what makes oil based products "much better"?
water based products are easier to clean up and are more environmentally sound...everything else is lower on my priority list.
 
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Oil-based is much better. Environmentally safe? As long as you keep it on the wood and not dump it in a drinking resevoir....it is safe. ;)
 
It really depends on the wood you used to build your stand. For instance water based stain raises the coarse grain way too much for my tastes when using oak. I don't like the colors or the penetration as much using water based stains in general. Neither will cover caulk, you would need a quality wood putty in order for a filler material to soak up a bit of the pigment.

Water based poly on the other hand works just fine. Just make sure you wait the full 24 hours and do a full wipe down prior to applying a water based poly over an oil based stain.
 
Minwax Polyshades works quite good. Very easy to play and adjust color.

Two in one with the polyurathane and stain in one swoop.

Unless your a die hard wookworker then using the 2 in one is so much easier to match and pach colors for light/dark areas in the finish.

JMO
 
I have been a custom cabinetmaker/woodworker since the 80's and I still haven't found a water-based product that I like. Many do, but I find that it leaves a "plastic" look IMHO. Here are a few pics that I have to show what oil-based can look like. If I thought that WB finishes were better or atleast equal.....believe me, I would use them!
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I have been trying to decide if it would be worthwhile to start building/selling custiom tank stands and canopies.:confused:
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10034457#post10034457 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mope54
I'd recommend water based on ecological grounds.
Hoping fellow reefers feel the same way... ;)

but I'm curious what makes oil based products "much better"?
water based products are easier to clean up and are more environmentally sound...everything else is lower on my priority list.

What makes you think that the water based product is more environmentaly friendly?
 
I would recommend the gel stains from General Finishes. By far the easiest product to use. I am a pretty experienced woodworker, and swore by oil based stains forever. Then I tried the general finishes gel stain after playing with it at a workshop at my local Woodcraft store. I am currently finishing up a project, and it is coming out awesome.
 
Tips from Minwax.

Tips from Minwax.

I just spoke to Minwax and they said that gels do the best at covering up wood filler marks. I have these spots and they turned a lighter color so they suggested to get 120 grit wet/dry sandpaper soaked the oil stain to fix these areas. Also the areas that remain tackey you are supposed to use mineral spirits to take up the tackey section and then wet sand that area and restain. Then whatever others you want to stain go for it.

Just some info from Minwax I wanted to share. --Chris
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10034986#post10034986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
What makes you think that the water based product is more environmentaly friendly?

My original post, before I edited it, was referring to water based paints...I also wrote I wasn't sure if paints and stains were the same in that regard.

I don't actually know whether oil based stains are similar to oil based paints. So far, however, only one person has explained why oil based stains are better: for appearance (in his experience). Although, he also posted that if he found a suitable water based stain, he'd rather use it. So it seems to me that there are factors at play that no one is really talking about directly...leading me to believe that a lot of recommendations in this thread may not come from people who have personally evaluated both types of stains on anything other than aesthetics, if at all.

I don't know that oil based stains have any more significant ecological impact than water based ones. I should have rewrote that point as a question when I edited my post. But the point remains that I would hope we value more than just appearance...
 
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The long of the short:

Oil based products by in large are more durable and provide better adhesion and stability over time.

The reason that so many new products are water based is simple... It is NOT new technology in water based coatings, but rather the fact that they very compounds (VOCs) that make coatings durable have been banned and/or regulated to the point of extinction or extreme supply costs.

You will find that most manufacturers tout their water based products as "new technology", "environmentaly friendly", "easy cleanup", etc.

The reality is that they are nowhere near the quality of their older coatings that can no longer be made. This is not just a consumer problem, it is industrial also. Coatings have not improved over the last decade or so, they have taken a huge step backwards.

We now paint bridges every 5 years instead of every 20 years.

Don't get me wrong, there is a place for both oil (alkyd) and latex (water) based paint products and oil and water based urethane products.

With regard to THIS subject...

Oil based wood finishes will give a warm feel and will amber over time. This is desirable to MOST people. The oils penetrate the wood surface and form a deep protective coating that is very desirable in damp conditions.

Water based finsihes will have a bluish cast to them and tend to wear much differently. The solids content does not penetrate as deeply and therefore the wood is not as protected in harsh environments.

There are MANY other facets to the conversation, but you will find that MOST informed woodworkers prefer the oil based products for MOST projects. As I mentioned, water does have it's place.

As for brands of finish.. I am not a minwax fan at all. I use the stuff for some projects (like our hardwood floors) but use the General finishes products for everything else.

As for the environment... not everyting that appears to be a good idea really is. The VOC ban and regulations have cuased the coating re-application rates to skyrocket as well as the amount of goods that get scraped due to coating failure. Look at CFL lightbulbs and the enviro morons that want to make incadescent bulbs illegal in favor of CFLs. Somebody forgot to remind them about the fact the the CFLs manufacturing process negates any savings it would ever have on energy consumption, let alone the fact that the thing is made of PLASTIC and MERCURY, COPPER, LEAD etc...

Enjoy...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10036945#post10036945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal

As for the environment... not everyting that appears to be a good idea really is. The VOC ban and regulations have cuased the coating re-application rates to skyrocket as well as the amount of goods that get scraped due to coating failure.

hmm, well in that case, having to restain something periodically or strip unsightly stains does make a good enough argument in my opinion to reconsider...or at least food for thought. Thanks for the information.

Why would someone choose water based stains then?
Is it still true that water based stains are much easier to clean up than oil ones?
 
Mope in your situation it is not so much coating failure... both would likely be suitable. The decision maker will be more of an easthetic one :) Grab a pint of each and slap em on some of the wood you plan to use :)

Remember you CAN NOT use steel wool or iron based sandpaper with water based finish... the embed particles will rust under the finish :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10037007#post10037007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
musky were the dovetails hand cut or do you have a jig? Very nice choice of wood (tiger maple?).

Bean,

I'd guess hand cut because of the varying sizes, very nice huh? I like.

Tim
 
yeah, back in teh early 80's I watched the "woodrights shop" on PBS http://www.pbs.org/wws/

and he (Roy Underhill) hand cut dovetails to make a hardwood tool chest. I was hooked... marking gauge, dovetail saw and all. That xmas dad got me the little craftsman jig.... nice but I never liked it as much as he hand cut ones :)

I have seen norm use some pretty high end ones since then :)
 
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