scooter31707
New member
I also noticed you put the fish back in the DT after the TTM, that was 12 days that your DT was fallow. it's recommended to go fallow for 72 days.
Ok now I am completely confused about ich
- Thread starter kenpau
- Start date
kenpau
New member
Well I'm not sure that I agree that a system can't be ich free, however I think there is a large percentage of people out there who have ich in their tank and think it's ich free, the only reason that it hasn't shown is good stocking, low aggression and good feeding, basically doing things right!
kenpau
New member
You're right, I went fallow for 21 days the second time. This is because I went fallow for 73 days the first time and after reintroducing fish they got ich again. I caught the ich very quickly though and removed all fish. So after 21 days and after talking to a few very experienced reefers I reintroduced my fish, minus the hippo tang. All fish are healthy and eating well and there is no sign of any ich. I may have ich in my tank but because there is good stocking, no aggression and they are fed 5 times a day, they are all very healthy.
The only fish that has got ich is the hippo tang that is still in the QT, this fish went through the same TTM as the rest of the fish, the only difference is that it wasn't reintroduced to the DT. This is why I'm so confused about ich!!
ericarenee
New member
You do know what you are saying goes against what nearly every marine biologist and Long term reef keeper has said... I have Several tangs in my Tank NONE of them Have ich and Never get a breakout. not even one spot.
If what you say is true it would come and Go.....
Just my Opinion..... Thank you for sharing yours..
Cujo13
New member
That would be like saying my dog always has hook worms. Bacteria and viruses that give us colds are transmitted through the air and surfaces. Proper hand washing being the best way to eliminate them. Parasites have life stages stop one and you stop it from reproducing.
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nycreef
New member
The fish in my system havent had another outbreak in two years since the UV. I dont know what else to give credit too. Ive read everything on ich from every corner of the net. No way I could take over 100 fish out of my system so I chose an oversized UV and it worked. I cant contribute it to anything else. Just my 2 cents for what its worth. Inho uv cant hurt so im not saying anything that could do any damage if anything I might be correct afterall.
Spar
New member
a UV sterilizer will only kill what goes through it. so it does help be killing some theronts and protomonts, but will miss the vast majority of them that instantly go toward a rock, etc, upon dropping off. once they hatch they will go straight for a fish, likely never having even come near the entrance of the UV sterilizer.
UV sterilizers help dramatically for algae that floats in water columns since that is where the algae lives. whereas Ich lives on fish or a hard surface somewhere, not free-floating.
more likely that you are experiencing less Ich is due to a low stress environment that comes with a mammoth tank.
Very old debate, I'm afraid; with 'entrenched' opinions on all sides. It's clearly possible to have an ich-free tank, but I'd also wager that most tanks do have it lurking somewhere. My own tank, for example. Were it not for my Achilles I'd swear to you that it's ich-free; yet said fish periodically shows up with a few spots. My hippo used to as well, though not anymore. This goes back almost two years. How does one explain this (other than simple delusion on my part)? Some folks have ich wipe out their tanks, others live with it.
Clearly fish health, and slime coat specifically, plays a role. Maybe a UV helps. Don't know for sure, though I do run one and always have. My own 'pet theory' is that there are different strains of ich with varying potency, and I've simply been lucky to have a mild one. I'm OCD about QT to ward off anything worse.
kenpau
New member
+1 here. We all start with an ich free tank so it's certainly possible but I think you're absolutely right, I'd bet that there is a large percentage of people out there that think they have an ich free tank but don't. To be fair if that is the case then they're doing well as a fishkeeper because chances are these tanks have appropriate stocking levels, well fed fish and minimum aggression.
Deinonych
New member
I agree on both counts.
kenpau
New member
What else do you think it could be? The whole TTM was pretty stressful on the fish, all the others seemed ok but Hippo tangs are notoriously sensitive.
Spar
New member
could it be lympho?
kenpau
New member
Possibly, TTM did put a lot of stress on the fish. I'll try and get better photos tomorrow, although I am dosing copper now, so it may not be easy to tell.
ericarenee
New member
This is something i never Really thought about.. I assume it is possible . Not really thought of it like this.Also I do know you can have two identical species fish One super healthy one not so much.....
I wonder if any ich specialist Has actually checked out the parasites that close to determine if there are variations as you think exist..
I Just know i have put nothing infected (to my knowledge) in my tank.I have never seen one sign of ich or Breathing related stress on my Fish. :beer:
kenpau
New member
I've seen the theory of different strains of ich mentioned on here a few times. If this does turn out to be the case then how can we rely on this magical '72 day' fallow period as each strain would have different properties.
ericarenee
New member
I am not sure the protocol on how to deal with fish and a tank would change..
Here is my Questions AND Comments to this theory
1.So there is a Stain of ich living in your marine tank. It comes and goes .
Infects a fish once in a while but poses no real threat to the fish. Only a once in a while outbreak...
2.So there is a strain of ich that can live thru ttm and 72 day no fish in the tank..
3.So there is a strain that you can get from a LFS On a new fish that is Hardy and kills everything.. But the 72 day no fish and qt works to kill..
Now Your tank has been setup for 6 months with nothing new added. Then it breaks out with ich . But only a very small infestation. Then it goes away only to repeat its cycle at some non random time later.
------------------------------------------------
We will call this the weak strain of ich
--------------------------------------------------
Now your tank has been setup for 6 months with nothing new added. Then one day you BUY A New Fish and put it right into your Display. But only to notice a few minutes later its has white spots... Your whole tank becomes infected in days.. You QT Everything and do 72 days no fish... The fish become ich free in hypo or ttm.. You put them back into the tank and no ich for a year or until you Introduce the parasite again somehow...
It would my My Opinion based on the two statement above . that the Ich parasite that could do most damage to the Fish would also be the most hardy and Still present past the 72 days. So would Infect fish Quickly once introduced into the tank..
The Weaker stain would eventually Eradicate itself as its life span is short and needs to infect fish to repopulate itself... Probably sooner then later..
This is why i do not totally buy this. Maybe some fish are just immune to the parasite . and will get it once in a while when they are sick of something else or stressed ..... Again i do not buy this as i have seen complete tanks with 20 plus fish infected not one fish in there without the parasite...
Maybe there is something in the water column that keeps the parasite at bay in some tanks and not others...A Parasite that keeps the ich parasite from reproducing to epidemic proportions
and prevents massive outbreaks..
Too many VARIABLES For me to NOT TAKE EVERY PRECAUTION.. MY GUESS IS YOUR TTM Just failed and ich outlived the 72 days . or you recontaminated the tank with your hands or something somehow..
:spin1::spin1:
I have read scientific studies on ich that allude to "different strains', but I have no idea whether it is instrumental in affecting the impact of an infection. What I DO KNOW, is that in the almost 30 years that I have been keeping marine fish I have had tanks where ich wiped out my fish population and tanks where ich was clearly present but manageable. How does one reconcile this?
My display has ich, of this I am certain. Achilles periodically exhibits a few spots. Any new fish that are introduced post QT either show no symptoms (in the majority of cases) or develop a few spots of their own that persist for a week or two then never return. Last fish to do this was a Sailfin tang that has now been spot free for 4 months. I'm open to any clever explanation for this.
Perhaps it's a weak strain, perhaps there is some magical ich predator in my tank, perhaps the SPS corals eat the ich? Something else?
BTW, I am NOT suggesting that the presence of ich in my tank relieves me of the requirement of QT. There are far worse things than ich, and if my thinking on the differing strains is correct, then I want to avoid a more potent strain too.
My display has ich, of this I am certain. Achilles periodically exhibits a few spots. Any new fish that are introduced post QT either show no symptoms (in the majority of cases) or develop a few spots of their own that persist for a week or two then never return. Last fish to do this was a Sailfin tang that has now been spot free for 4 months. I'm open to any clever explanation for this.
Perhaps it's a weak strain, perhaps there is some magical ich predator in my tank, perhaps the SPS corals eat the ich? Something else?
BTW, I am NOT suggesting that the presence of ich in my tank relieves me of the requirement of QT. There are far worse things than ich, and if my thinking on the differing strains is correct, then I want to avoid a more potent strain too.
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Bent
I got nothin'
As someone who's career is centered around be understanding of human disease pathophysiology, I can tell you for certain the the viruses that cause the common cold are not intrinsic within the human body. They are contracted environmentally through contact.
If cold viruses were natural human flora, then everyone with immune disorders would die.
Thought I would clear that up.
