Olasana Lagoon: High Energy SPS Nano Build Thread
- Thread starter galleon
- Start date
allsps40
New member
Ummm goldfish in a bowl is a big no no in the aquarium world. Goldfish first off produce a lot more ammonia than most fish so good filtration is a must second most gold fish can get over 12" long. So how is a bowl a good home for goldfish? The only fish that hobbiest can readlly get that will live in a bowl is a Betta. I know you are a pro aquariumist mr. wilson so I am surprised you are not aware. Goldfish in a bowl is a common misconception. For those that had a gold fish in a bowl as a kid I wonder how many fish your parents replaced for you and you did not know it. I worked as the aquatics guy at Petco for a few years and worked at a few LFS and I can tell you how many times I have people coming in buying replacement goldfish so their kid would not know. After the 3-4 time I would just try to explain why the fish keeps dieing and get them set up with a 29G tank with filters ect. Same customers would be coming back in a few months not for replacement fish but for more food because the fish is going well in a proper home. Goldfish can live for 50+ years in some cases and given the proper conditions not the maybe 1-2 years in a bowl or 10G tank.
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vitz
New member
you know as much about goldfish as you do about reef aquaria :headwally:
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
Try telling that to the 4 billion people in Asia who have been successfully keeping goldfish in bowls for 1500 years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping a goldfish on a bowl. They breath from the surface and can adapt very well to poor water quality. As long as you change the water daily, there is no need for the piece of floss and carbon you deem vital. I know someone who kept a goldfish in a bowl for 25 years. They may even still have it. Domesticated goldfish do no grow to 12".
Don't delude yourself that a small sponge filter or even an elaborate canister filter will keep a goldfish tank clean. You need to do the frequent water changes anyway, so the filter is superfluous.
The same rue applies for small reef tanks. I have been keeping marine fish for 33 years and have concluded that protein skimmers, refugia & reactors are only necessary for tanks over 50 gallons, as long as you do regular water changes.
The main purpose for a sump is to hide an ugly protein skimmer, heater, and perhaps a refugium. Refugia were a great idea ten years ago, before the hobby adapted GFO, NP Biopellets, carbon dosing, and lanthanum chloride. Now it has gone the way of the DSB. Heaters can be concealed in the display, or run inline along with chemical media and mechanical filtration. That leaves you with a protein skimmer, which can function extremely well, but usually not when they are miniaturized for a small tank.
A sump to conceal a protein skimmer will cost $200+, plumbing $100+, overflow $100+, return pump $100+, and a reliable protein skimmer will run you another $300+. That's a lot of resources to skim an inch of sludge every week. Those same resources could be re-designated to an automated or at least semi-automated water changing device with better results.
Air driven skimmers are the only way to go for small tank applications. The only reason they fell out of popularity was the $1 expense of changing the air diffuser every three months. For some reason we thought cleaning a venturi weekly was a better deal back in the 80s and we never looked back.
These days I recommend a canister filter with built-in heater and UV sterilizer, NP pellets, premium carbon, and sponge mechanical canister filter for small tanks <50 gallons. I have a feeling you are applying big tank practices to a small tank application.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
It's been awhile since I have kept a goldfish, but yeah, they are perfectly fine. It's also a better way to control pathogens as you can change bowls and wipe them down. Chickens are kept in boxes, but not successfully to my standards. Although I will admit, free range chickens do taste a little gamy.
I just use the pellets in a media bag in an anaerobic state. There is very little bacterial film slough off when the aerobic bacteria is minimized. Why keep anaerobic bacteria in an aerobic environment? Why grow reams of biofilms that you need to export? I flip the bag every week to keep it from going anoxic and developing hydrogen sulphide. It works much better than fluidized media reactor. Slow flow denitrifying filters with carbon dosing has been done for decades.
naterealbig
Premium Member
Burnah,
Nobody is calling a goldfish in a tiny bowl or a chicken in a small box ideal living conditions. What is being said, is that it can be done, often with a very small affect on the livestock's well-being. Let's not try to get too philosophical here, and before anyone puts their toe into this hot water, in general, the idea of keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel - relatively. We do it because we like it, and we justify the reasoning. Do you eat chicken?
The few recent posts are intended to discredit the recent influx of mis(read myth)-information and useless drivel. It seems to some that their way is the best or only way, and this is simply not true. And to top things off, it is generally poor form to correct others when you are not a successful aquarist yourself.
I have noticed that many (if not the majority) of those that own beautiful aquariums or have earned TOTM don't find it necessary to boast their merits, tell people how dumb they are, or throw around "I toldya so's". Galleon will be successful with this and future aquariums, because he is honest (with himself and others), and makes note of his successes and (more importantly) his failures.
Keep fighting the good fight galleon. Thanks for keeping us posted.
Nobody is calling a goldfish in a tiny bowl or a chicken in a small box ideal living conditions. What is being said, is that it can be done, often with a very small affect on the livestock's well-being. Let's not try to get too philosophical here, and before anyone puts their toe into this hot water, in general, the idea of keeping fish in an aquarium is cruel - relatively. We do it because we like it, and we justify the reasoning. Do you eat chicken?
The few recent posts are intended to discredit the recent influx of mis(read myth)-information and useless drivel. It seems to some that their way is the best or only way, and this is simply not true. And to top things off, it is generally poor form to correct others when you are not a successful aquarist yourself.
I have noticed that many (if not the majority) of those that own beautiful aquariums or have earned TOTM don't find it necessary to boast their merits, tell people how dumb they are, or throw around "I toldya so's". Galleon will be successful with this and future aquariums, because he is honest (with himself and others), and makes note of his successes and (more importantly) his failures.
Keep fighting the good fight galleon. Thanks for keeping us posted.
110galreef
New member
is goldfish in a bowl really much different than a Tang in a 100g or smaller tank?
Wow what a thread. Why no one can understand every setup is different and about anything implemented can work in this hobby.
10% WC every 6 mos to virtually NO WC on SPS tanks work great, and I have seen work.
400w in a 20g is getting close to the intense sun? Yeah maybe a waste of energy and not needed, but if you already have it, and want to make it work it will and has been proven.
Minimal(next to none) LR is just perfect given a very low bio load, or frequent WC, or good skimming, or whatever, but no reason it can't be done.....
MY 250g DT, ~150# Rock (~same ratio as the 20g here with ~10# I may have a little more)
I use 10% wc every 4-6 mos,
SKIM only, No GFO, No Carbon,
only 500w MH's,
only 4300GPH flow thru CLS(only 20x's turnover including return)
and has been very succesful SPS dominate reef for over 2 yrs.
Now as my tank fills in more i realize i will need to bump up flow a bit as it will be hindered...But my SPS setup is a naysayers dream too!
Galleon, great setup and documentation.
Wow what a thread. Why no one can understand every setup is different and about anything implemented can work in this hobby.
10% WC every 6 mos to virtually NO WC on SPS tanks work great, and I have seen work.
400w in a 20g is getting close to the intense sun? Yeah maybe a waste of energy and not needed, but if you already have it, and want to make it work it will and has been proven.
Minimal(next to none) LR is just perfect given a very low bio load, or frequent WC, or good skimming, or whatever, but no reason it can't be done.....
MY 250g DT, ~150# Rock (~same ratio as the 20g here with ~10# I may have a little more)
I use 10% wc every 4-6 mos,
SKIM only, No GFO, No Carbon,
only 500w MH's,
only 4300GPH flow thru CLS(only 20x's turnover including return)
and has been very succesful SPS dominate reef for over 2 yrs.
Now as my tank fills in more i realize i will need to bump up flow a bit as it will be hindered...But my SPS setup is a naysayers dream too!
Galleon, great setup and documentation.
Charley Diesing
New member
HAH! Ouchhh...
allsps40
New member
Well considering how I have been keeping fish since I was like 10 so 20 years and the fact that I have been running very successful reef aquariums I would say I have a little bit of an idea on what I am doing.
Yes if you change the water in the bowl every day the goldfish would be fine but ammonia will still build up. Having a filter even a simple sponge filter will trap waste and have a place for bacteria to grow and convert the ammonia to no3. Keeping fish or any animal for that matter is all about giving them the best and most natural environment possible. A 1 gallon bowl is not idea for just about any fish.
We all encounter speed bumps in the hobby that is a given.
Here is the link to my current tank as requested. I in no way consider myself an aquriumist pro but I have learned a few things in my 8 almost 9 years of reef keeping and working at LFS and mobile aquarium service and install, agve me the opportunity to meet some very interesting people, learn a lot, see what does and does not work and saw a lot of dead fish from improper care. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2043078
Yes if you change the water in the bowl every day the goldfish would be fine but ammonia will still build up. Having a filter even a simple sponge filter will trap waste and have a place for bacteria to grow and convert the ammonia to no3. Keeping fish or any animal for that matter is all about giving them the best and most natural environment possible. A 1 gallon bowl is not idea for just about any fish.
We all encounter speed bumps in the hobby that is a given.
Here is the link to my current tank as requested. I in no way consider myself an aquriumist pro but I have learned a few things in my 8 almost 9 years of reef keeping and working at LFS and mobile aquarium service and install, agve me the opportunity to meet some very interesting people, learn a lot, see what does and does not work and saw a lot of dead fish from improper care. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2043078
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cromedogg33
Member
Well a few of the people who have commented in this thread are "pro's" and you contradicting them and the science behind their posts is laughable.
People just like you are the reason most of the old timers and "pro's" have left this forum and stopped actively posting because of close minded individuals as yourself.
I think we all understand your way is the only way that works, can you leave it at that and let the rest of us enjoy another member's build thread?
:deadhorse1:
allsps40
New member
I in no way said my way is the only way. I will be the first to tell you that there is 143,85,3485,450 ways to run an aquarium. I stand behind the no goldfish in bowls though. How can a fish that gets at least 12 inches long be ok in a 1 gallon fish bowl? Its like putting a tang in a nano tank, it just is not good in the long run for the health of the animal and if some people dont see that then ok. I guess this is just my opinion take it leave it I dont care. Who cares about goldfish anyways. No more on this so we dont take way from galleon's thread.
Acronic
The Fifth Master
vitz
New member
vitz
New member
demonstrably NOT axiomatic
it is easy to cultivate enough bacteria on the huge surface area of a typical gravel bed (and inner bowl surface) in a bowl of 2 gal to support 2x 4" (plus tails heh) comets, if basic, simple, properly done feeding and wc's are done.
you keep pulling out these declarative statements that don't help bolster your claims of quality knowledge background, given their obvious level of error.
i worked in one of the most cutting edge fish farm/hatchery cultures on the planet and learned just how much biomass can be supported and kept in relatively low volumes of water w/just a handful of old school abc's. i'd respectfully suggest not trying to go toe to toe w/me on this one.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I remember how naive I was back when I had only been keeping marine tanks for 20 years. I'm glad I wasn't active on forums back then, it would be so embarrassing to read now.
