OMG 40 clipperton angelfish, Holocanthus limbaughi,
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Vili_Shark
New member
"smuggling and poaching"???
poaching???
The reefs of clipperton as far as reef aquarium fish should be in a real good condition.
Why can one fish Tons of Tuna and Shark and you name it, on one trip to Clipperton and on the other hand another guy cant bring in 40 reef fish?
Which kinda laws u got there???
"the manner in which said wildlife is brought into the USA"
manner?
is it a nice way to say they are not after protecting any eco system or anything, they are just after paperwork.
AquaKnight
Active member
What a newb.... What he should have done was set up a little hut on some remote coast in Mexico somewhere. Collect the 40 Clipperton's then keep them in the hut. Wait till there was a decent sized typhoon/storm in there area. Then take a new angels out in the boat, and magically "somehow the storm blew a bunch of angels all the way from Clipperton Atoll to Mexico." Document it with a couple angels in collection nets underwater, some pics of angels in the boat, etc...
Then boom! Legally import and selling 40 Clipperton angels, which should be more then enough to retire :dance: :dance: :dance:
Then boom! Legally import and selling 40 Clipperton angels, which should be more then enough to retire :dance: :dance: :dance:
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jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
Is it Canada's job to protect Florida's Reefs? Is it England's Job to monitor Japanese commerical fishing? That is the point. You expect the US agency to enforce some vigilante commercial fishing enforcement on Clipperton Atoll? That is patently absurd. I dont doubt the reefs are in good condition and Limbaugh angels may be plentiful. I dont doubt that commercial fisherman there do lots of harm. But what does that ahve to do with this? Apparently someone tried to import some fish the the USA by being untruthful on the permits. That is what the USFWS does. They attend to the wildife that is being brought into the USA, not enforcing global ecology.
I dont know where you are in teh world (geographically), but I would GUARANTEE they have similar laws to protect wildlife.
AquaKnight
Active member
Eh.... Stealing a couple angels from the French... EEeewwww what are the French doing to do?
Fight the Power!!!But seriously though, it the very least it shines a light on the subject. If the French maybe see how much Clipperton angels go for, they'll open up to some type of collection. Laws don't get changed by people following them. Ask Rosa or Susan Anthony....
Vili_Shark
New member
Thats exactly my point!
It is not up to USFWL to enforce fishing or not fishing in Clipperton!
If the fisherman would have permits from France, he'd get the fish in.
WOOW what a huge difference, a permit from France, like if they know what's going on there.
Like I said, they are after paperwork.
ccampbell57
Premium Member
I am not sure who it is that tried to collect these fish, but I do know that there were some people trying to plan a trip out to clipperton to collect.
This is about the time they were planning too...this sucks!!! The 4" clipp in the second pic is unreal...hopefully they get the proper paperwork and the fish are imported. I need to get my hands on one of those guys...
This is about the time they were planning too...this sucks!!! The 4" clipp in the second pic is unreal...hopefully they get the proper paperwork and the fish are imported. I need to get my hands on one of those guys...
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
They are not enforcing fishing or no fishing! The are enforcing "were these fish collected legally and properly, because you must prove that to import them". The importer apparently didnt. he said he got them from "Mexico" apparently.
I dont understand what your issue is. EVERY country in the world has requirements for importing wildlife. If you do not meet those requirements, you cant bring them in. Vili- where are you from? I will prove my point. I guarantee that there are import requirements for animals, no less wild animals coming into your country. And what do you think would happen if I didnt meet those requiremnets, or worse off, apparently LIED to these authorities. Do you think they would let me bring the animals in?
Too much speculation here, not enough facts. I am dizzy, so let me ask:
1). Do you need a permit to collect at Clipperton?
2). If yes, who is the issuing authority?
3). Can H. limbaughi be collected even with a permit or are they endangered/threatened listed?
4). Does anyone know the actual status of this shipment? Is it impounded pending review, or seized as forfeiture?
5). How do I get one?
Dan
1). Do you need a permit to collect at Clipperton?
2). If yes, who is the issuing authority?
3). Can H. limbaughi be collected even with a permit or are they endangered/threatened listed?
4). Does anyone know the actual status of this shipment? Is it impounded pending review, or seized as forfeiture?
5). How do I get one?
Dan
ccampbell57
Premium Member
Ill answer your questions:
1) No permit is required
2) No authority
3) they can be collected if you can get to clipperton island. They are far from endangered/threatened
4) Still in limbo
5) You cant...
1) No permit is required
2) No authority
3) they can be collected if you can get to clipperton island. They are far from endangered/threatened
4) Still in limbo
5) You cant...
coralite
registered member
This is not exactly correct. Clipperton Island, "L'Ile de Passion" is an adminstrative territory of France. You do not need a permit to collect the fish but you need some kind of permit issued from the French Gov't to be able to have some paperwork to import them into the US. And if they go through Mexico like this batch did then it's whole other layer of mexican bureaucratic red tape.
small alien
The fungus is among us.
I kinda think they were joking.
Terra Ferma
New member
Too all the people who doubt that is it 1. legal to collect/import fishes from Clipperton Atoll or 2. That Clipperton Atoll "endemics" live only there - how do you explain the Stegastes Baldwini in my tank?
It is kind of a brain teaser, but to those who deal with US F&W, it will make perfect sense.
It is kind of a brain teaser, but to those who deal with US F&W, it will make perfect sense.
Terra Ferma
New member
I should Clarify - this fish was in the hands of a US F&W agent who said "whats this" and then promptly put it in the "cleared" section.
Terra Ferma
New member
To clarify further, said it was a Stegastes sp, and he put it down without any more questioning.
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
I do deal with the USFWS, and I concur that USFWS agents do not always have a good grasp on what they are inspecting. Then again, they inspect EVERTYTHING. Could you tell species fo turtles, amphibians, insects, fish, mammals apart? It isnt easy.
Here is my question for you- on your 3-177 form, what did you list this fish as? You are supposed to provide a declaration of import along with your I/E license when bringing in animals to ports. Did you purposely "underlabel" it, or was it labelled corrected, and the agent didnt do his homework? They do ask specifically for the common name, scientific name, as well as country of origin. Most USFWS agents will review this, as it needs to be in their hands 48 hours before arrival.
Here is my question for you- on your 3-177 form, what did you list this fish as? You are supposed to provide a declaration of import along with your I/E license when bringing in animals to ports. Did you purposely "underlabel" it, or was it labelled corrected, and the agent didnt do his homework? They do ask specifically for the common name, scientific name, as well as country of origin. Most USFWS agents will review this, as it needs to be in their hands 48 hours before arrival.
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