OMG 40 clipperton angelfish, Holocanthus limbaughi,
- Thread starter espocrespo
- Start date
Dante_JoseCuerv
New member
Man, those are nice fish. Wish I could get one... but by the looks of that's gonna be a big no-no.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
The situation is still under review.
Many things therefore are probably not good to discuss just yet...but;
behavior of fish, adventure stories, catch techniques, handling and decompression, more photos etc. may be OK.
We may reconfigure after nailing down the steps involving multiple destination voyages and go again!
If there is new clarity and support, why not?
Steve
Steve
Many things therefore are probably not good to discuss just yet...but;
behavior of fish, adventure stories, catch techniques, handling and decompression, more photos etc. may be OK.
We may reconfigure after nailing down the steps involving multiple destination voyages and go again!
If there is new clarity and support, why not?
Steve
Steve
Kahuna Tuna
Active member
This was my point exactly, and if anybody doesn't think this hobby will be shut down or at least severly restricted if illegal collection continues doesn't know anything about the U.S. government, this is exactly what they will do and they have the power to do it.
Mislabeled
Mislabeled
Villa relax
If people keep doing stuff like this, they will shut down the importing of animals. Dont think they arent trying now.
Because of the invasive species problems and hobbiest lack of discretion we may soon face that.
Mislabeling these fish isnt that good of an idea
On purpose or not, this story may lead to more people trying the same technique. Lots of corals are brought in under the same type of tricky classification. Brain corals are a perfect example.
How long will it take for people in this hobby to realize that, were the ones who are bringing it down, every year. The reaon why stuff is mislabeled is because, if its known under it real name it most likely will be siezed. Even if the fish arent endangered, they may not be allowed for import for other reasons.
Mislabeled
Villa relax
If people keep doing stuff like this, they will shut down the importing of animals. Dont think they arent trying now.
Because of the invasive species problems and hobbiest lack of discretion we may soon face that.
Mislabeling these fish isnt that good of an idea
On purpose or not, this story may lead to more people trying the same technique. Lots of corals are brought in under the same type of tricky classification. Brain corals are a perfect example.
How long will it take for people in this hobby to realize that, were the ones who are bringing it down, every year. The reaon why stuff is mislabeled is because, if its known under it real name it most likely will be siezed. Even if the fish arent endangered, they may not be allowed for import for other reasons.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
Guys
This trade has been ...and still is "largely" based on planeloads of cyanide collected fish out of the Philippines and Indonesia from the very beginning.
If that didnt bring it down, I can't imagine one bucket of fish caught with handnets being able to.
Like I said, its under review.
Steve
This trade has been ...and still is "largely" based on planeloads of cyanide collected fish out of the Philippines and Indonesia from the very beginning.
If that didnt bring it down, I can't imagine one bucket of fish caught with handnets being able to.
Like I said, its under review.
Steve
cortez marine
In Memoriam
Innocent ? I'd kinda go with stupid.
Steve
Steve
AquaKnight
Active member
myerst2
Active member
Any fish enthusiast like myself are drooling to see pics and hear about every last detail of the trip!!! The important question still remains unanswered?! Why the deception??!!! Is it as bad as using cyanide? Of course not!!! Laws are set for a reason, whether just or not. In this case stating proper species is very just. That way some novice who has no idea hopefully wouldn't collect Leafy sea dragons thinking they were common sea horses. Well I know you are in the know!!! Why H. sp. and not limabaughi? We would all be drooling over the lucky few who had the money to buy them but even more envious of the amazing frontier that you again conquered for the hobby. My 2 cents for what they are worth. T
regina574
New member
quote:
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Originally posted by LargeAngels
So who actually takes care of the fish in a situation like this until it is resolved?
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Good question, I would also like to know
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Originally posted by LargeAngels
So who actually takes care of the fish in a situation like this until it is resolved?
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Good question, I would also like to know
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
USFWS has established contacts for such confiscations and situations. In the vent of domestics like dogs, they use specific bonded kennels. For exotics, such as this fish, they often go right to the end sources. I wouldnt doubt if certain public aquariums already have them in hand.
But, each port of import USFWS will have their own contacts for such.
But, each port of import USFWS will have their own contacts for such.
zemuron114
In Memoriam
The US F/W has no control over the Philippine and Indonesian cyanide caught fish, that is why it continues. These fish are Exported AND imported properly so it is outside of their control. It is up to the hobbyists, retailers, wholesaler to use better consideration of where they import from. It is pretty easy to tell if the fish were caught with cyanide.
Cyanide caught and exported fish will and are treated differently than 40 fish from a remote island being funneled through Mexico without proper documents. There is a big difference IMO.
BTW - cyanide collection has been slowing down due to the involvement of the Philippine government, because it is effecting other food fish etc as well. We will see where it ends up.
I believe the industry is too big now to shut it down. Too many people have jobs, businesses, support families etc to shut down the entire industry. That is why the Bill that gets forced through every year is thrown out just as quickly. However, that wont stop them from creating more and more paperwork for importing wildlife to make it that much more complicated. These things have repercussions. I dont think this particular incident will, though.
Cyanide caught and exported fish will and are treated differently than 40 fish from a remote island being funneled through Mexico without proper documents. There is a big difference IMO.
BTW - cyanide collection has been slowing down due to the involvement of the Philippine government, because it is effecting other food fish etc as well. We will see where it ends up.
I believe the industry is too big now to shut it down. Too many people have jobs, businesses, support families etc to shut down the entire industry. That is why the Bill that gets forced through every year is thrown out just as quickly. However, that wont stop them from creating more and more paperwork for importing wildlife to make it that much more complicated. These things have repercussions. I dont think this particular incident will, though.
olemanwinter
In Memoriam
I'm not 100% sure about anything I'm writing here, but I think:
there are a couple of issues.
1) Collection. The collection of these fish may or may not be illegal in the country that has jurisdiction over those waters.
2) Importation. The importation is either legal or illegal based on the laws of the country recieving the product. They have nothing to do with the laws of the country of origin.
As an example we can look at the old Ivory trade. In many instances, the countries where the Ivory was being taken from supported it's export. After worldwide outrage, other countries like the US made their importation illegal as a way to kill the trade by drying up the demand for the supply.
Also, there are things that are perfectly legal to import, but have strict guidelines. I'm not sure what case this falls into, but I find it curious that the fish were taken by Fish & Wildlife.
It seems like they would have been taken by US Customs if they were mislabeled and imported. It also seems like they would have been taken by the Border Agents if someone just tried to drive across the border with them hidden in the trunk.
The fact that they were taken by F&W almost makes it seem like they were already in the US before being taken. F&W are the people that come take you to prison if you capture a wild hawk or other animal and make it your pet (in most cases) etc.
Not sure if any of this matters, but it sounds like this is all a US matter and may have an impact on the "hobby", but it doesn't neccessarily imply that the country of origin has a problem, that it hurt the reef, etc.
In other words, smuggling...perhaps. poaching....not neccessarily based on this info.
there are a couple of issues.
1) Collection. The collection of these fish may or may not be illegal in the country that has jurisdiction over those waters.
2) Importation. The importation is either legal or illegal based on the laws of the country recieving the product. They have nothing to do with the laws of the country of origin.
As an example we can look at the old Ivory trade. In many instances, the countries where the Ivory was being taken from supported it's export. After worldwide outrage, other countries like the US made their importation illegal as a way to kill the trade by drying up the demand for the supply.
Also, there are things that are perfectly legal to import, but have strict guidelines. I'm not sure what case this falls into, but I find it curious that the fish were taken by Fish & Wildlife.
It seems like they would have been taken by US Customs if they were mislabeled and imported. It also seems like they would have been taken by the Border Agents if someone just tried to drive across the border with them hidden in the trunk.
The fact that they were taken by F&W almost makes it seem like they were already in the US before being taken. F&W are the people that come take you to prison if you capture a wild hawk or other animal and make it your pet (in most cases) etc.
Not sure if any of this matters, but it sounds like this is all a US matter and may have an impact on the "hobby", but it doesn't neccessarily imply that the country of origin has a problem, that it hurt the reef, etc.
In other words, smuggling...perhaps. poaching....not neccessarily based on this info.
Terra Ferma
New member
The small ones went into F&W's office tank (not tanks) they just setup. I'm sure they did really well and the survivors will arrive at public aquariums in top form.
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