On brand names...

[Sk8r]

Especially when dealing with 'is it safe to use' and 'can I economize'---generally take it that if the users on RC trouble to specify brand name and particular product of brand name on something, there's a reason. Buying an alternative cheaper product or 'something like it' is not always a good idea. It MAY be ok, but a novice who hasn't yet had the experience to know the ins and outs of water chemistry, skimmers, and such---is just a lot safer sticking to specific recommendations. At least, if you think you've got a bargain, ask. This also goes for foods, meds, etc. If the lfs is pushing a new product, ask---there, the primary danger is just that it won't work. But be conservative and cautious about what you let into your tank. Anything smelly, pungent, or oily is a real no-no. Anything antimicrobial or antibacterial is a no-no unless you're trying to kill bacteria. 'Kay?

 

[heathlindner25]

What are we talking about sk8r? ... I read it twice

 

[Sk8r]

Know what you're putting your water INTO (not every container is chemically safe); know what WAS in it (having your spouse borrow a bucket is not an uncommon situation); know what you're putting INTO your water---not every new product is good; and know that common things you come in contact with (creams, perfumes, be it handborne or airborne) can be a problem. Using the right brand, right product, eg, is important if you're going to use a rubber glove---some are 'antimicrobial.' And knowing that the words antimicrobial, antibiotic, and death to bacteria are somewhat interchangeable---matters. This is a learning curve that can be complicated by the wrong pair of rubber gloves or the wrong plumbing connector.

 

[AboutAcans]

Especially when dealing with 'is it safe to use' and 'can I economize'---generally take it that if the users on RC trouble to specify brand name and particular product of brand name on something, there's a reason. Buying an alternative cheaper product or 'something like it' is not always a good idea. It MAY be ok, but a novice who hasn't yet had the experience to know the ins and outs of water chemistry, skimmers, and such---is just a lot safer sticking to specific recommendations. At least, if you think you've got a bargain, ask. This also goes for foods, meds, etc. If the lfs is pushing a new product, ask---there, the primary danger is just that it won't work. But be conservative and cautious about what you let into your tank. Anything smelly, pungent, or oily is a real no-no. Anything antimicrobial or antibacterial is a no-no unless you're trying to kill bacteria. 'Kay?

YES!!!! That's kind of what I was saying. Sk8 I don't mean to speak on your behalf, but it looks like you know sometimes even places will push products that are newer regardless of reliability just because the profit margin is like 40% on the stupid things. "Oh I hear great things" pumps been out like 19 days and what not.

 

[rocsec1]

That is way I wrote in big letters with a sharpie on my containers "saltwater only"

 

[Sk8r]

Then there's the 2 saltwater 32 gallon Brute cans we used to move the monster corner tank during the floor remodel...they've been sitting (the oldest ones) ready to be used for gardening and lawn work, and the other of us didn't know they were legal to be appropriated until---yes, October.

 

[heathlindner25]

Know what you're putting your water INTO (not every container is chemically safe); know what WAS in it (having your spouse borrow a bucket is not an uncommon situation); know what you're putting INTO your water---not every new product is good; and know that common things you come in contact with (creams, perfumes, be it handborne or airborne) can be a problem. Using the right brand, right product, eg, is important if you're going to use a rubber glove---some are 'antimicrobial.' And knowing that the words antimicrobial, antibiotic, and death to bacteria are somewhat interchangeable---matters. This is a learning curve that can be complicated by the wrong pair of rubber gloves or the wrong plumbing connector.

Gotcha, good advice

 

[creep]

This is great advice. Just to add to for any new people to the hobby. Trying to cheap out on equipment usually just means you spend more in the long run. When I first started out I ignored recommendations and warnings and bought the cheap stuff. Only to find out it really is no good, and have to spend money on the product that was suggested originally. I would have saved so much money, time, hassle, and fish lives if I just bought the right thing the first time. This hobby is not a cheap hobby.

 

[Greybeard]

Rubbermaid Brute 10g containers, $16.

http://www.centralrestaurant.com/Round-Brute-Container---10-Gallon-Capacity-c118p2071.html

Honestly, if you can't pay $16 for a water change container, you may have picked the wrong hobby. They come in various sizes, I like white for water changes.

Pool owners: I use 5g Chlorine buckets all the time. Rinse them out, and leave them outside until the quit stinking, they're fine.

 

[Mad_Reefer]

I find cheap works a lot of the time. And I've seen the best fail. KISS and patience works wonders.

 

[snorvich]

This is great advice. Just to add to for any new people to the hobby. Trying to cheap out on equipment usually just means you spend more in the long run. When I first started out I ignored recommendations and warnings and bought the cheap stuff. Only to find out it really is no good, and have to spend money on the product that was suggested originally. I would have saved so much money, time, hassle, and fish lives if I just bought the right thing the first time. This hobby is not a cheap hobby.

Absolutely.

 

[Mad_Reefer]

I hate when I read people saying this can't be done cheap. It is not true and I've proved it over and over.
People told me cheap lights would not grow coral and cause algae problems, then break and need to buy the good ones anyway. I bought them and grew big corals and coralline algae. They worked for years.
People told me not to buy cheap skimmers. They were right, it was a hassle. And then I learned I didn't really need a skimmer.
I could go on...
It's not super cheap and I wouldn't recommend people try to setup a tank with their last $100, but it doesn't have to be crazy expensive.
Also, beginners should not try a small tank to save money. Get a big tank and learn with soft corals and macro algae that can often be found for free from other reefers.

 

[AboutAcans]

One thing I want to add is I had a friend get his system all kinds of jacked up. When and if you buy trash cans, see where they are in the store. Some places stack them next to pesticides and all sort of garbage. He found out the hard way cause he got 2 50 gallon cans that were stored next to roach spray. The fumes wiped out his tank.

 

[2smokes]

My opinion on this topic is that the most expensive product isnt always the best.Most of the pumps,protein skimmers and otther equipments for saltwater aquariums are verry high priced for theyr real value.I like to build myself the devices that i need for aquarium because if its made by my hands then that device has much more value for me and verry offten i come with somme inovations that uses technologyes wich arent sold on the market.Personally i am made in china products fan and indeed there are a lot of bad stuff made there but keep in mind that a good brand ,expensive pump might also be built with copper wire made in china,diodes made in china for the controller ,but overpriced than the chinese stuff.In this hobby there are manny vultures ready to strip you out of monney like the snake oil sellers with the highly expensive ,,secret,, substances to pour into you aquarium .

 

[AboutAcans]

I don't go off price or names. I go off customer service. Just so happens the best customer service coincides with the higher priced best names. I could care less if I own a Red Dragon pump if it takes 3 weeks to get a replacement (just an example, not saying it does). If a company like Jebao got things done like Ecotech does, they'd be at the top of my list. I almost guarantee a person doesn't exist that's a bad experience with Kessil or Ecotech or Korallin. They just replace things lightning quick from what I've seen. And don't even get me started on Trigger Systems. I've seen that dude respond to emails at 3 in the morning and mail out probe holders at 5 in the morning. I can't mention retailers on the forums, but the best retail experience I've ever had in my freaking life came from one of the top sellers of Trigger in the nation. That dude answers his phone 24/7, literally. Never seen anything like it. The guy I got my Trigger sumps, Kessil lights and Ecotech pumps from was hands down the best retailer I've dealt with in my life.

 

[Sk8r]

It helps to do some research including watching equipment in operation on You Tube, the good and the not-so, so that you UNDERSTAND how it works: skimmers are a case in point: they come in several types; ditto pumps vary---understand GPH (gallons per hour) and 'head' (distance of lift); the more you know, the less you have to re-buy. It's useful to know that kalk only has to be stirred once, and that putting it in your ato is the easiest way to dose it. Not the only, but you can spend 300 dollars doing no better than just stirring powder into your ATO; but not all ATO pumps can survive the abrasion of the stuff: you can wear out two of them just figuring the first failure wasn't a fluke. Spending a bit more on a tougher pump is actually good economy. This is why asking around and comparing brands and such is a real good idea.

 

[2smokes]

Jebao in my opinion isnt the most representative chinese manufacturer.I buyed reverse osmosys membrane made in china 5 times cheaper than the american original one and there is no difference between them.Somme people sayd that chinese membrane is bad but its actually made with ,,made in USA,, machines and under american license.Same with chinese LEDs,most of them are made under license and i prefer to buy thoose dirt cheap leds directly from china instead from somme european supplyer, any time.Vorthech pumps are good but theyr extremely overpriced.I would understand this high price in case vortech was the inventor of the magnetic drive but they arent.They just coppyed somme old design thats been used for decades in the auto industry and they sell it high priced as if they were the inventors.I think even the vortech pumps magnets are made in china and as far as i know china is the only producer in the world of neomidium magnets.

 

[creep]

I completely agree that expensive doesn't always mean the best, and I certainly didn't mean to imply that in my post. Sk8r has a great point. Do your research. Ask questions. Find out what your needs really are and what effects that product will have on your tank. When I started out I made the mistake of trusting everything my LFS told me. This resulted in my buying a crappy skimmer, CF lights with the promise that it will grow any coral I want on my 40B, using copper based medicine in my display tank, etc. The end result was money wasted on a skimmer, on lights, and a tank that was nuked with extremely high levels of copper. I was looking at the price first, and then rationalizing it in my head that it will be okay. I ended up getting so frustrated that I quit the hobby for awhile.

When I finally decided to get back into the hobby, I first looked for products that were quality products that were proven to work. Then I looked at the price. Before I bought anything I made sure that I read everything that I could find on it, watched youtube videos, read reviews, etc. I have had so much more success and been much less frustrated with this tank. Could I have spent less money? Absolutely. Was the money I spent on my current equipment worth it? Absolutely.

The key to succeeding at keeping an ocean in your living room is knowledge. Know what you want to accomplish, and learn what is needed in order to achieve that. How hands on do you want to be? Do you want to dose every day, carry large buckets of water back and forth from your tank, manually turn your lights on and off every day, etc. Or do you want to spend extra money for a controller and automate all of that work? Whatever it is that you want out of your tank, take the time to learn what will be necessary to get there.