On lunch break, need quick help!! Clown in trouble.

DasCamel

DasCamel

Active member
Quick help, clown in trouble on lunch break.
I just came in and my clown was in his condition. Pics attached. I introduced two anemones into the sump last night that came with an order of 5 fish including another clown last week. The other fish are in quarantine, they look ok.
All other fish in DT have been healthy with nothing introduced other than the anemones in the sump. The Anemone were attached to a rock and plastic container that were then treated with Cipro for 5 days in a another QT then into the main tank.


What is this, clown was ok last night, swimming up in the corner a few minutes ago.

Blotchy skin one side, white material other side. Pulled him out of the display asap.

DSC_5932.jpg

DSC_5930.jpg

DSC_5923.jpg

DSC_5919.jpg

DSC_5916.jpg
 
Other thread Id'ed it as Brook... How ****** is my DT, and treat the clown with freshwater dip and formalin?

I need ideas!! :)
 
OMG.

Alright, so basically I need to take all the fish out of the main DT and treat them with
Formalin for Brook and leave it fallow for 4 weeks.
 
That's the safest bet. Or you can keep an eye on ones that haven't shown symptoms and remove them at the first sign of problem.
 
If you don't have formalin Quick Cure will work. You can get it from walmart. I did dips every other day for 5 treatments and the fish pulled through.
 
Ok

Ok

Thanks guys. Hitting up the store shortly. I did a quick temperature matched freshwater dip before I left at lunch and got the clown in a 20 gallon quarantine setup that I had just used for the two anemones.

I'm torn on what to do with the rest of the fish. Catching them and moving them is going to be a huge PITA.

Seems like Brook moves faster in all respects. If they don't show symptoms does that mean I'm free and clear or is it like ICH that can linger for a very long time and you'll never see it.
 
I only did dips but I know the Quick Cure bottle directions say you can add to the QT. After each dip I moved the fish into a clean QT. The treatment for this disease is rather labor intensive IME. As far as an immunity to this disease in all of the reading (scientific abstracts and studies) there is none. And unlike crypto it does not lie dormant for extended periods of time. So should you treat all fish?...I would do 3 dips of a lesser dose or less time than the diseased fish. Regardless the main needs to be fallow.
 
Update.

Update.

Newsmyrna80 said:
I only did dips but I know the Quick Cure bottle directions say you can add to the QT. After each dip I moved the fish into a clean QT. The treatment for this disease is rather labor intensive IME. As far as an immunity to this disease in all of the reading (scientific abstracts and studies) there is none. And unlike crypto it does not lie dormant for extended periods of time. So should you treat all fish?...I would do 3 dips of a lesser dose or less time than the diseased fish. Regardless the main needs to be fallow.
Click to expand...

Just moved to a clean QT and dosed the water again per instructions 1 drop per gallon of the quick cure.

She looks overall ok, the area on the left side I scraped a sample off for a microscope slide, first glance didn't see much. Dead tissue, scale pieces and red blood cells. I look again later today need to head back to work. Nothing new has formed on her.

So if it doesn't become dormant, can I just observe the fish in the main tank for 2-3 months and treat as needed. Getting the fish out would be a complete tear down. If it does pop up again then go fallow for sure?

Also New, what dose do you use for the dips, ro/di or saltwater? Full 15 minutes?

Thanks for the info and advices guys.
 
If the clown was in the DT I would pull all fish out and leave the tank fallow. You could either treat the other fish or wait to see if they show signs then treat. I dug out my notes and I pulled my mandarin and goby and put them in a separate QT and observed. They never showed signs of brook. The flame angel was dipped for 25 minutes in Quick Cure. Dosage was 1ml/gal. I used 2 gallons of water and put in 1/2tsp and aerated for 2 hours. Then he was moved into a clean tank after every dip. I just used an air stone for water movement. He would hide for a few hours but he would come out to eat.
 
Ok, thanks for the details.

Ok, thanks for the details.

Newsmyrna80 said:
If the clown was in the DT I would pull all fish out and leave the tank fallow. You could either treat the other fish or wait to see if they show signs then treat. I dug out my notes and I pulled my mandarin and goby and put them in a separate QT and observed. They never showed signs of brook. The flame angel was dipped for 25 minutes in Quick Cure. Dosage was 1ml/gal. I used 2 gallons of water and put in 1/2tsp and aerated for 2 hours. Then he was moved into a clean tank after every dip. I just used an air stone for water movement. He would hide for a few hours but he would come out to eat.
Click to expand...

Quick update, the clown seems to be doing great on the quick cure bath. Posting a quick timeline.

4/17 Panicking during lunch hour... 15 minute freshwater dip and getting the clown into the QT used for a couple anemones that were treated with Cipro. Regular QT has fish in it, no bueno as a solution.
That night used the quick cure, 1 drop per gallon as a bath. Two nice air stones for flow. Contains Formalin and Malachite green.

4/18 Morning prepped a new QT rubbermaid with fresh batch of saltwater, used the same heater and air stones. Again 1 drop/gallon of the Quick Cure.
That night looked at the skin sample under the scope, looked nasty, death and destruction. Mainly just dead tissue, blood cells and scales. At this point couldn't see any Brook. Wish I had sampled at lunch the first day, time issues.

4/19 50% Water change, ammonia badge clear. Again dosed 1 drop/gallon. The clown is looking much better and active. Tough little fish. She was in spectacular shape and ate great the day before all this. I'm sure it helped.

Thinking of continuing the bath for 14 days, sound ok? Maybe only dosing every other day for the last week? Try feeding on the off days?

Anyway, the display tank is going to be a huge PITA, mainly because I don't have anything cycled and clean to place all the fish. Currently hybrid powder blue tang, yellow eye kole tang, lantern basslet, firefish, dwarf flame angel, one spot foxface. Not sure if it matters, but also three anemones now in the DT.

Just thinking about catching all the fish is giving me shivers. Pic of the display with most of the listed.
image.jpg
 
DasCamel said:
Quick update, the clown seems to be doing great on the quick cure bath. Posting a quick timeline.

4/17 Panicking during lunch hour... 15 minute freshwater dip and getting the clown into the QT used for a couple anemones that were treated with Cipro. Regular QT has fish in it, no bueno as a solution.
That night used the quick cure, 1 drop per gallon as a bath. Two nice air stones for flow. Contains Formalin and Malachite green.

4/18 Morning prepped a new QT rubbermaid with fresh batch of saltwater, used the same heater and air stones. Again 1 drop/gallon of the Quick Cure.
That night looked at the skin sample under the scope, looked nasty, death and destruction. Mainly just dead tissue, blood cells and scales. At this point couldn't see any Brook. Wish I had sampled at lunch the first day, time issues.

4/19 50% Water change, ammonia badge clear. Again dosed 1 drop/gallon. The clown is looking much better and active. Tough little fish. She was in spectacular shape and ate great the day before all this. I'm sure it helped.

Thinking of continuing the bath for 14 days, sound ok? Maybe only dosing every other day for the last week? Try feeding on the off days?

Anyway, the display tank is going to be a huge PITA, mainly because I don't have anything cycled and clean to place all the fish. Currently hybrid powder blue tang, yellow eye kole tang, lantern basslet, firefish, dwarf flame angel, one spot foxface. Not sure if it matters, but also three anemones now in the DT.

Just thinking about catching all the fish is giving me shivers. Pic of the display with most of the listed.
View attachment 274348
Click to expand...


How did you get a skin sample to look under the microscope? Your dental education came in handy?
 
Yup.

Yup.

sc50964 said:
How did you get a skin sample to look under the microscope? Your dental education came in handy?
Click to expand...

Easier than most kids. :lmao:

It wasn't too hard, just held her gently in my hand, once she calmed down after a few seconds, ran the dull side of a kitchen knife along the protruding white lesion and it just sloughed off.
 
It's a huge PITA to move them to a QT. But if you have do it enough you learn very quickly that a quarantine regimen is key. I can't speak to the bath treatment. In all the research I did the only recommended treatment were dips. But if he seems to be responding just keep up the bath as the manufacturer recommends. As far as the other fish you could try Bio Spira and/or Prime for the ammonia.
 
Quarantine

Quarantine

Newsmyrna80 said:
It's a huge PITA to move them to a QT. But if you have do it enough you learn very quickly that a quarantine regimen is key. I can't speak to the bath treatment. In all the research I did the only recommended treatment were dips. But if he seems to be responding just keep up the bath as the manufacturer recommends. As far as the other fish you could try Bio Spira and/or Prime for the ammonia.
Click to expand...

That's the part that kills me, every fish has had at least a 3 week quarantine with some going through TT. What I didn't think was possible was getting it from anemone that was in great shape, but came from a disgusting Petco tank system. I had even rinsed him off with saltwater before placing him in our DT.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

I just re-read this today figured that was highest probability source. Anyway, still learning. My quarantine system just got stricter and my microbiology/histology skills are getting better.
 
LOL your microbiology skills become incredibly better in this hobby:) Yep! Sounds like it was the anemone. I've had brook and ich brought in by inverts so I actually quarantine corals and inverts longer then fish. I've had corals sitting in a QT for 11 weeks now...they finally get moved next week! Also I had velvet brought in from a tang that came from a LFS that ran low levels of copper. Little did I know that can mask symptoms of velvet for three weeks.
 
Anemone

Anemone

Newsmyrna80 said:
LOL your microbiology skills become incredibly better in this hobby:) Yep! Sounds like it was the anemone. I've had brook and ich brought in by inverts so I actually quarantine corals and inverts longer then fish. I've had corals sitting in a QT for 11 weeks now...they finally get moved next week! Also I had velvet brought in from a tang that came from a LFS that ran low levels of copper. Little did I know that can mask symptoms of velvet for three weeks.
Click to expand...

Sensitive anemones are the toughest, some need strong lights and very stable conditions. Not even sure how to QT them for a prolonged period.

Thinking about corals and such, TT won't even work. Something else to be concerned about....
 
Update Pics.

Update Pics.

4/20 Retreated the water again this morning after a 50% water change. She seems energetic when approached or the lights turn on. Looking normal at first glance.
So took out for some update photos, which also help keep track/log her condition.

On the left side, still showing signs of the lesion, although not growing. Doesn't seem to have the same mucous sheen as Thursday.

Thinking or treating the water with antibiotics because of the leftover wound.







Note the gloves since the water contains formalin. Also, Photobucket works great for higher resolution photos.
 
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