Opinions on Treating Ick

[captbunzo]

Okie dokie. So Friday afternoon, my sister buys me a Scopas Tang as a thank you for all of the work I've been doing setting up her 90G tank. That's all great, always love a free fish, especially one that was on my fish plan (albeit a little early). It is about 2-3 inches long and quite lovely, very active, etc.

So I get this fish home and do the WRONG thing. I acclimate him and stick him in my tank. No quarantine, hyposalinity, or any of those other processes that are recommended, especially for tangs, etc. And I should have known better as that store has lots of trouble with Ick, doesn't use heaters, etc.

On Saturday morning I notice a couple of spots which I believe are indicative of Ick. They're gone on Sunday. Then this morning, there are about twice as many (5-6 spots on each side). And the tang is exhibiting some itching behavior - scratching itself up against things.

This evening, I am going to move into Quarantine mode. This is what I propose to do about the tang.

1. Do a 10G water change on main tank. Use old tank water to setup 10G QT Tank. Pull sponge from main tank sump and setup sponge filter in QT tank. Add powerhead (MJ 600) and add a lid. Finally transfer the tang into the tank.

2. Starting tomorrow, I will begin hyposalinity treatment as described in this article. And I'll leave the tang in hyposalinity for 4-5-6 weeks, depending on how it goes and my level of patience.

So, my questions are:

1. What do you guys think of this plan?
2. Does anyone believe that I need to QT all of the fish in the display to kill the parasite in the display tank?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

The QT part is fine. Do you currently have any other fish in there besides the Scopas? If so, I would take them out and place them in QT as well. Ich can't starve if there is food present

This is all subject to opinion, but this is what I would do and why. Leave it all alone and feed the most nutritious food with added garlic. Though garlic has not been proven to actually help marine fish, it at least increases their appetite for food if they are feeling reluctant to eat. The fish will need healthy food to fight off the parasite whether they are staying in quarintine, hospital, or display tanks. Plus, if you decide to do hyposalinity they need the extra immuno-boost because of the stress involved. But, since you already put an infected fish in the tank, that means it's too late. Your display is already infected. Most fish that contract ich are able to fight it off as long as they were healthy to begin with and not under stress. Basically, leave them, feed heavily, don't mess with the tank, and keep your lights low. If you have any fish that look unhealthy or stressed, remove it to a QT tank and watch for an outbreak. Ich will overpower the weakest first to increase it's population which in turn increases the chances of a healthy fish getting it at all or worse. If the unhealthy fish that was removed is already showing bad signs, set up a hospital tank for your choice of treatment. IE Copper

 

[MyMonkey]

I had a similar thing happen to me a few months back. My Mom bought me a Coral Beauty from AC a few months ago. It looked healthy etc... Suddenly, it began to show signs of ick. The specs seemed to come and go over two days. THen there were more of them. I consulted AC, Jesse actually. He advised to wait for a while before trying to catch the fish and QT him. Allegedly, once in the main tank, the Ich is there. By removing the fish from QT you run the risk of stressing the other fish in addition to the affected one. I waited it out and all the spots disapeared. Either because the fish fought it off, or the Cleaner shrimp helped. Whatever happened, there have been no further signs of ick on the Coral Beauty of another fish for at least 8 weeks.

Also, I have read that in order to kill all the parasites in the main tank you must leave it fallow, without fish for at least 6 weeks.

At this point, I hope my tank is free from Ick, although I am not certain either way. That was fairly non-responsive. Sorry.

 

[captbunzo]

Yep. It's hard to say. Either way is a bit of a roll of the dice.

1. Do nothing - which may hurt later.
2. Do something - which may hurt now.

 

[mskohl]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm new to this and yes, I have had ich in the tank.

I've been told that basically every tank has ich. I've read the same articles as everyone else, but I think there is a point to not stressing the fish with hyposalinity and/or copper. It seems I've read just as much about a fish in QT dying from ich - maybe it's because it's stressed and can't fight it off.

I think I'd probably boost the food nutrition, add garlic, and just keep in mind that there is ich in the tank. So, when down the line you want to get a powder blue or regal, you can also buy more cleaner critters too.

Just my opinion and I'm probably not in the majority.

 

[captbunzo]

Ok, let's turn this thread a bit. Seems the leanings here are toward boosting the fishes immunity, etc, in the main tank. What detailed suggestions can I get on that from you folks?

1. Specific foods...
2. Specific vitamins, supplements, etc...

And would it do a scrap of good to go buy a cleaner shrimp?

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6944951#post6944951 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by captbunzo
Ok, let's turn this thread a bit. Seems the leanings here are toward boosting the fishes immunity, etc, in the main tank. What detailed suggestions can I get on that from you folks?

1. Specific foods...
2. Specific vitamins, supplements, etc...

And would it do a scrap of good to go buy a cleaner shrimp?

Food depends on your tank. I think more importantly it should be a variety of foods that they can munch on throughout the day. This is a little difficult and borders on a nitrate problem. BUT, nitrates can be dealt with later while your fish are playing Russian Roulette. If possible, soak all foods in selcon and/or garlic. I would suggest feeding little bits throughout the day to keep their little tummies full. I would suggest Mysis Shrimp and Cyclopeeze as a common food. Throw in a pinch of Thera A, Formula 1, and/or Formula 2 to vary their diet. For any herbicores, such as the Scopas Tang, not only would I feed little bits of Nori, I would also feed stuff like well washed and softened (boiled, blanched, steamed, etc) greens such as broccoli, spinach, etc. Stay away from lettuce, especially Ice Berg. It's all calories. If you have funds/access to Selcon, soak everything you can. If not, just feed as much as you can as often as you can without overfeeding. A little goes a long way.

Like I said about garlic earlier. You may have read the article. A study was done on freshwater and saltwater fish and the effects of garlic. Some were fed it, some were injected, and some had something else if I recall. Only the freshwater fish that was injected with garlic actually showed true signs of the garlic actually helping to fight ich. All the others had little or no signs.

 

[exoticaquatics]

A cleaner shrimp wont do you any good. Cleaner shrimp/wrasse actually dont do a good job of cleaning cryptocaryon irritans, or marine ich. I read a study done on cleaner wrasse in the ocean, and they found no ich tomonts in the wrasse. Your only way to get rid of it for good is to treat your fish, and possibly your other fish in the tank. Like I was saying Saturday, keep an eye on your clowns. Not that the others cant get it but I would assume they would first. If you want to be 100% sure, then QT all your fish, run hypo or a copper treatment on them, and leave your tank fishless for 4 weeks. The life cycle of marine ich is 3 weeks, so four weeks should be enough time for them to die off. And the copper/hypo treatment should last 4 weeks as well. Not ever tank has ich, and none should, but not everybody wants to QT their fish. It is a very common parasite, but is easily treatable. But if I was you I would do something fairly quickly, because it will just get worse. And feeding foods to boost the imunity is a good idea too, but isnt a cure. Thera A pellets are good, and food soaked in garlic is too. Selcon or Zoecon are good vitamins as well.

 

[captbunzo]

Thank you for the tips, Slone! I guess I better get an order put together for some supplements....

 

[Travis L. Stevens]

Paul, this isn't the exact article I was looking for, I'm still hunting it down. But this one is chauked full of Garlic/Ich information. I guess it's more for your reading than anything since it doesn't right out answer your question.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php

 

[captbunzo]

Hehe. Didn't post the link, Travis.

 

[rdonchann]

In my opinion, if it is going to make it, it will and if it doesn't there is nothing you can do to change that. They all carry ick it just tends to flare up during a move etc. If you try to take him out for quarantine it will just stress him and your tank more. If it is left in the tank keep things stable and low key as possible and good luck.

 

[captbunzo]

Thought people might be interested in Paul Whitby's tank on this all, for those that haven't heard it already...

He recommended a mixture of Thera A and minced garlic from the grocery store. He mentioned these pics for reference:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/paul-w/garlicpelletingredients.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/paul-w/garlicpellets2.jpg

He agreed specifically that taking it out and quarantining it will likely stressing it more then anything. I noted that Thera A has copper in it. He said that it has a very small amount of copper, not enough to hurt inverts, and that he has been feeding it to his tank every day for 2 years.

So this is likely what I'll do. I might take a bit of advice from Puffer Queen over in the Fish Health forum in Marine Depot and soak some foods in Vita-Chem and Selcon. Afterall, I doubt it can hurt.

We'll see!

 

[kcgor]

Heres what I done.. Bought 2 Cleaner shrimp.. Ich all gone the next morning.

 

[Snprhed]

I have to agree with the guy that said it earlier. ich is always there. If your display shows signs then act. Since the tang is in qt I would go with Travis's accessment. feed him try to help it fight the ich off. Usually scopas are pretty hardy (it was a scopas wasn't it?) Its in all of our tanks its just when the fish's natural ability to fight it off gets lowered.

Good luck

 

[SeanF]

Ich does not neccesarily always have to be present. It is possible to eliminate ich from a marine tank if you do it right from the very start. The first step is that any invertebrate you bring in to your system has to be kept in a tank free of fish for at least 30 days this means any live rock or anything like that. Second is to treat all of you fish with a proper level of copper based medication for at least a period of two weeks.

It is quite easy to do with a little patience and planning. There is a tank maintainence person here in town that has been using this method for the last two years and all of the customers that don't go out and buy their fish from any other place have been ich free.

I know a lot of you consider copper an evil medication but it is very effective when used properly. I have not had an outbreak of ich in my store in more than a year (when I started using the copper) because of the use of copper based medications in my fish system.

 

[MyMonkey]

Question: If you use Copper in your QT, then do you have to use a separate QT for inverts when you bring them in?

 

[scott0615]

My store uses all of the above recommendations. Hypo [1.014-1.016 sometimes lower], 14 day system doses of copper, 7 days of praziquantil [de-wormer/flukes], baytril injections as needed for bacterial infections. As a retailer, less than 10% of hobbyists QT regardless of how much we preach it. I would rather kill fish with meds than send out sick fish. Keep in mind saltwater fish are constantly drinking water, if you have a free-swimming parasite [about day 6-10 of the "typical parasite' life cycle] in the tank it will get injested. That fish will look perfectly healthy until a little stress is placed on it. There is only one way to guarantee a truely healthy fish, cut it open and look at it from the inside [anyone good enough to put some stiches in ocellaris clowns???]. Copper is a must for any retailer that sells fish. Feeding good quality foods enriched with vitamins, garlic, and metronidazole is another thing we recommend and do. By the way vitamins are light and air sensitive. They should be re-added to foods prior to feeding. Vitamins [even if the manufacturer says they are added which most do] do not tolerate freezing, exposure to light, and exposure to air. B complex vitamins are great immune system boosters. C is produced naturally by the fish. As far as introducing parasites they can enter your tank from any source - a new piece of rock, the water that anemone is in, etc. Protozoan parasites are inverts...............if the med says invert safe is it truely effective???????????? If ick gets in a reef tank the best bet is vitamins, garlic [mixed theories/thoughts on that one], feed metronidazole, and keep your fingers crossed.

 

[dugg]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

The two best links i have ever found on ich and it's treatment.

 

[SeanF]

We run completely seperate systems in our store. We run one system for fish and one system for invertebrates. There are no fish in any of our coral tanks also. We do everything we can to eliminate any parasites from being transmitted with anything we sell. The customers that put just our fish and corals in their tanks don't have problems with ick. It can be controlled but it takes diligence in keeping the parasites out.