ORA Green Mandarin - not eating?

[Lion-o]

Hey all,

We've had our mandarin for about a month now and he is worrying us as he has not been visibly eating when we feed him. We spot feed with a mix of nutramar ova (prawn roe) and cyclopeeze. I currently pre-mix the two with some tank water, and "snow globe" it down around our mandarin. He doesn't seem interested. We used to try just placing frozen chunks of the nutramar in the tank as well, but he would ignore them for quite a while as well, and our female clown would find and eat it. I'm not sure if he is constantly grazing during the day and just not hungry during feeding time, or if he is just completely not eating!

I am uploading two pics that are a couple weeks old, and will reply to this thread with a few pics from today. They are not the best (a little grainy), but I think they show fairly well how skinny is. I can't say for certain if he has grown skinnier since we got him.

Also, I apologize for making a new thread just for this. I tried a search first but most of the threads looked outdated, and I know there are a lot more CB mandarins swimming around now

thanks in advance,
danny

 

[Lion-o]

here's a couple current pics..

 

[davocean]

He looks very skinny.
A 40g would have to have a pretty good size fuge and plenty of established LR to sustain him, and personally I think it's a bit too small.
I would get that mandarin in a tank that has plenty of pods asap, and hopefully it's not too late for him to recover.

 

[tandldel]

My ORA went after PE Mysis first and always shows most interest in this. does go after the nutramar as well. Also I find that mine goes after stuff only when it's moving with a little flow. Funny I tried to spot feed with everything off but have better luck with my VorTech on feed mode. Good luck.

 

[matt frizz]

That guy is quite skinny. You can see the bones toward his fin! Definitely get him out and into a more established tank. I bought my ORA mandarin a couple months ago as well but he is quite fat because I have a huge/stable population of pods. I can't target feed mine either but that's why I made sure my tank was plenty established with a refugium for years before biting the bullet on the mandarin.

 

[Carinea]

I am going to to deduce that this is a new 40g tank you have put this mandarin in. Mandarins need copepods-lots of copepods, an endless supply of copepods which is most likely what this little guy is grazing for. This little fellow looks like he has been starving for a month and your best option (actually the mandarin's best option) is to take him back to the store. These require a well established tank of at least a year with lots of live rock.
I really wish people would do research and show a little self control and wait until they have established tanks before buying them and subjecting them to their torture chambers . Hospitals wont let you take your baby home unless you have a child seat in the car and I wish LFS's would not release these fish without proof of an established tank

 

[davocean]

Well, in all respect to OP there seems to be a lot of misinformation and bad advice pumped around on these guys, especially towards the ORA's captive bred advertised to be trained to eat prep'd foods making people think they can keep them in smaller tanks or fresh tanks lacking pods.
I'm going to guess that is why OP bought the much more expensive ORA's
Personally most LFS tanks are not the best place for mandarins, especially for one to recover from starvation.
FWIW I had one shipped to me that was also very skinny, and I didn't think it would survive as usually when you see them look like yours usually it's too late, but mine did come back luckily(and I have a ton of pods)
An established tank would be best chance for survival, and I would not take my time in finding one.

 

[Carinea]

Davocean-I wish I could agree, however, I am a newbie-my tank hasn't even been delivered yet and like the OP I to saw one of these little mandarins and really wanted one. So I went home and researched information and advice on them and that research and advice (and yes there were some people saying that it was fine, they don't need much) is what brought me to the conclusion that I posted. Not sure how anyone could do research and not come to that conclusion, unless there is some sort of info processing issue-which I do't think think the OP has. The LFS is the best place for it's survival as the LFS needs to make a profit and can't if this little guy dies.

 

[davocean]

Well, your thinking can be rare among newbies quite often, but it's an attitude that is much appreciated.
It does get very frustrating to give sound advice on these guys and see one person disagree, and seeing OP take that advice just because they want them.
Sadly the profit margin is not big enough on them for most LFS to really even care.
A wrong may be somewhat righted by taking them back to the LFS, but it most likely will mean death for this mandarin at this point.
It is at least nice to see smart conservative opinions coming from newbies, so,
[welcome]

 

[Carinea]

Thank you much

 

[matt frizz]

Well, in all respect to OP there seems to be a lot of misinformation and bad advice pumped around on these guys, especially towards the ORA's captive bred advertised to be trained to eat prep'd foods making people think they can keep them in smaller tanks or fresh tanks lacking pods.
I'm going to guess that is why OP bought the much more expensive ORA's
Personally most LFS tanks are not the best place for mandarins, especially for one to recover from starvation.
FWIW I had one shipped to me that was also very skinny, and I didn't think it would survive as usually when you see them look like yours usually it's too late, but mine did come back luckily(and I have a ton of pods)
An established tank would be best chance for survival, and I would not take my time in finding one.

Agreed. Just because they are ORA and "eating frozen" in the store does not mean that they will eat in your tank at home. It's hard to target feed these guys (especially with other aggressive eaters in the tank like clowns) and they much prefer an endless pod supply like said previously. Hope the OP can get him to a good home in time!

 

[Mariebaby21]

There is a copepod product on the market that you can add a whole bottle to your tank.
here's the link
http://reefnutrition.com/tigger_pods.html
I hope this helps

 

[Lion-o]

Thanks all for your replies. I did do my research before buying - I knew we couldn't keep a wild mandarin that required only pods to eat. However that same research led me to believe the ORA mandarin which are raised without pods would do fine in our 40G tank which we've had for over a year (not sure if that is consider well established or not). We have a nice layer of coralline algae now and lots of activity in our sand bed (though I couldn't tell you what most of the little critters in there are). Our sump does not contain a refugium.

My LFS does sell those tigger pods so I could go pick some of them up. Would they breed and continue to populate the tank?

I also found this product on liveaquaria. Does anybody have a preference to one or the other?
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=2190+3058&pcatid=3058

We can look for a home with a more established tank but in the mean time would like to do everything we can to get the little guy eating. Please keep the advice coming

thanks,
danny

 

[Mariebaby21]

Yes, they do continue to breed in your tank. If I am not mistaken, they eat phytoplankton. The website will tell you all about them. If I were you, I'd go get a bottle as soon as you can. I really hope it helps I used them in an old tank of mine years ago and from that point on there was never a time that I didnt see them on the glass in my tank. which meant they were ALL over

 

[Lion-o]

Marie,

I will run to the lfs tomorrow and pick up a bottle. Anything else I should grab while I'm there? I'm more than willing to spend a pretty penny to get this guy eating if that is what it takes!

Also, any special techniques for introducing the pods to the tank?

thanks,
danny

 

[Lion-o]

One more thing. Every once in a while we see him elongating out his mouth, almost like he is stretching. What is he doing exactly? At first we thought/hoped that he was eating but it is not something we see very often. Unfortunately I don't have a pic or clip of him doing this and my google/youtube searches have also come up dry of finding another one doing the same.

 

[Fish Bowl]

Thanks all for your replies. I did do my research before buying - I knew we couldn't keep a wild mandarin that required only pods to eat. However that same research led me to believe the ORA mandarin which are raised without pods would do fine in our 40G tank which we've had for over a year (not sure if that is consider well established or not). We have a nice layer of coralline algae now and lots of activity in our sand bed (though I couldn't tell you what most of the little critters in there are). Our sump does not contain a refugium.

My LFS does sell those tigger pods so I could go pick some of them up. Would they breed and continue to populate the tank?

I also found this product on liveaquaria. Does anybody have a preference to one or the other?
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=2190+3058&pcatid=3058

We can look for a home with a more established tank but in the mean time would like to do everything we can to get the little guy eating. Please keep the advice coming

thanks,
danny

NOT to sound rude or overbearing, tiger pods can't reproduce in our tanks due to the temperatures (75+ish). They tend to thrive better in the 65~ range so it would end up being an expensive snack at best for your mandarin.

What would be best for your mandarin would be to add in a bowl/bottle or catch it and place it into a container of sorts where you can do something to entice it to eat.

Unfortunately ORA mandarins don't all eat as advertized and often times have to be re-acclimated to certain foods (even their most commonly used food prawn eggs).

Please read through all of this for more details (hopefully something in here will help your mandarin recover from that state)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19870373&postcount=359

 

[snorvich]

ORA mandarins have mixed results (do a google search or RC search). I think that the odds of success are at best 50/50. I did experiment with a pair in my 350 gallon reef with negative results. Now I only keep wild caught in any of my tanks.

 

[jgmorr02]

I have not had any experience with ORA, but have been successful with WC and tend to agree with snorvich that everything I read before buying seemed to be 50/50. I think part of it is when people buy ORA they aren't anticipating having to put in as much work to get them eating prepared foods when in all reality it can be just as tough as working with a WC one.

 

[Lion-o]

When training to eat frozen, how long would you expect him to stare at food before pecking at it? Mine will just stare at it and ignore it - the problem is not other fish getting to it first. Actually, I've gotten him to go into a shot glass with food multiple times, but he seems uninterested and leaves, and then later the hermits get to it.