Orange Spotted Filefish

[tatuvaaj]

The question is, do you have to keep them without corals to get them to feed? I believe they will start feeding as well with corals as without and because their entire behavior revolves around SPS corals, I feel they should not be kept without. And to me it seems more appropriate to provide them something to eat before they start to feed on dry/frozen foods and not try to "force" them by starving them more than necessary.

My individual was able to maintain its weight by picking the corals I have in my display tank but clearly they need more food in the long run and thus it certainly is important to get them to eat something else.

By the way, many people have seen the same kind of feeding behavior as I have.

IMHO, naturally.

 

["Umm fish?"]

The question is, do you have to keep them without corals to get them to feed?

No. Mine had some corals in the tank while I was training them. Most of the corals were still alive when I moved the fish out of the training tank, but they'd taken a beating from the sudden nutrient load. The only time I ever saw tissue loss was between the first evening and the next morning that I was there, and that could have been just a stressed coral sloughing tissue. I saw the fish pick at one of the corals roughly twice in the two months before I moved them.

Honestly, I have no real trouble with the idea of keeping these in reef tanks. I personally think that it's a really good idea to make sure they are eating something else before you put them into a tank where they have a lot of competition and it's hard to monitor their food intake.

If I weren't trying to breed them, I would probably have mine in a reef tank too. Since I don't have them in a reef tank, I am very interested to see what the phrase "obligate corallivore" really means, at least for this species. (I've been playing around with plebius butterflyfish, too, for about the last six months in a tank without corals, but that's a story for another thread, yeah?) Like I say, from what I can tell, I don't believe there's anything magical about coral flesh that gives the fish anything that they can't get from other dietary sources, IF you can get them to actually eat the other food. AND corals--especially in nutrient-poor systems--obviously are not going to pack much nutritional punch. So, I think it's much easier to get them healthy and keep them there if they are eating alternative foods.

 

[Dizzle63]

I just picked up a beautiful female tonight at the lfs that had been in someones tank for at least a month. Just acclimated her. Hope she does well.

 

["Umm fish?"]

Good luck with her! I hope your training goes well!

Here's my female, eating from a frozen chunk of Nutramar Ova as the male looks on.

 

[seahorsedreams]

How big are the Nutramar Ova is comparison with, let's say, frozen cyclopeeze. They look kind of big in that pic. If they are, I'm going to pick up some for sure.

The eggs in the Rod's food get eaten first. She totally ignores anything the size of cyclopeeze.

 

[Luiz Rocha]

I never kept these guys, but always thought they were very cool looking. Great to know that there is some captive breeding attempts going on. Here is a photo of a pair taken in the Marshall Islands:

 

["Umm fish?"]

They are smaller, but not a whole lot. I don't think I actually have any cyclopeeze around right now (nobody nearby carries it, odd as that sounds).

So, here's the Nutramar Ova:

The SF cyclops product (which is not the same as Cyclopeeze):

Particles in my seafood mush:

And the scale:

Sorry, the scale's off. I'll take another picture and replace the image. ***Image is replaced***

 

["Umm fish?"]

Thanks for the photos, Luiz! Look at how dark that male is! And they both are very well-rounded. Cool!

 

[seahorsedreams]

i never kept these guys, but always thought they were very cool looking. Great to know that there is some captive breeding attempts going on. Here is a photo of a pair taken in the marshall islands:

*faints*

 

[seahorsedreams]

Thanks Andy for filling me in. I wish I could find fish egg sized ones easily.

 

["Umm fish?"]

That Ova is right around the same size--maybe a little bigger--as the sixline eggs, and they really do seem to be fish crack. Kinda gross to see what freezing does to them, though.

 

[suta4242]

That's how they've traditionally been tried in the past. And that's fine if it works out for you. I have seen pictures of them in reefs tanks that were starving to death, though.

It's just like with mandarins. You can just keep them in a large reef tank and hope that they get enough food. Or you can train them to eat something that you can feed them and _know_ that they are getting enough food.

Not too long ago a friend kept a pair in a large acro tank for about 9 months. They weren't taught to eat any other foods. In the early months they both fattened up and were a truly beautiful sight to behold. But unfortunately I suspect these ones did include polyps in their diet. The acro had stopped opening during the day and the pair slowly wasted away and died.

I don't know what their nutritional needs are, but getting them eating is only part of the battle IMO. In the early 90s a very conscientious local shop owner had about a 50% success rate teaching his ones to eat. Usually he tried smearing food over dead acro skeletons & freshly opened clams. If successful it would take a couple of weeks to get them feeding well. So I bought two of these fish, but only one survived +/- 1 year. Now including some he kept for himself, none even made 18 months (AFAIK). So there was a nutritional deficit somewhere along the line. Also, no one back then was putting them in with acro.

In short, I think theres a lot of merit in teaching them to eat before putting them in a display. And our understanding of fish nutrition is much better today... but I'd still let them access coral to supplement whatever you're feeding.

Finally, I'm almost tempted to try them again!!! :beer:

 

["Umm fish?"]

Well, but the foods have gotten so much better in just the last few years, much less since the early 90s. We'll see. I'll be disappointed if these two only make it to 18 months, as they've been doing awfully well. But if they start wasting, I will certainly start taking other steps. I seriously doubt that there's something magical in coral flesh that makes it better than any other flesh (in fact, I'd bet that corals have fairly nutritionally poor flesh), but I can be proven wrong.

 

["Umm fish?"]

My pair are coming up on a big day, so I've written a short article as a celebration. There's probably not anything new in there, but it's all collected together in one place.

http://www.ummfish.com/

 

[small alien]

Congratulations. A great accomplishment!:frog:

 

[ocello]

Although it may be a wee bit premature; congratulations on hitting the one year mark! Quite an accomplishment, for many years these fish were considered "cut flowers" in the aquarium. Now off to read your article.

 

["Umm fish?"]

Thanks, y'all! Oh so close.... I have to say that I'm almost looking forward to this more than the holidays.

 

[isseym328]

Hello,

So today I was fortunate enough to get in two of these beauties. I requested a male and a female, but when I got a closer look at them i'm not super sure they're male/female. I THINK i see some spots on one of them, but it is really hard to tell. They both have dark fins under the belly area. I think also the fins are bruised. So is there anyway other way to tell if they're female or male? Will they get along if both are males? or if both are females? Thanks in advance.

 

["Umm fish?"]

If you can get photos from the side then I can id them for you. I think that they are pretty territorial with conspecific consexuals, but they might get along. Keeping these fish is still a new adventure. Are they feeding? Good luck!

 

[isseym328]

Hey Andy,

Been trying to take pics but cannot get a good macro of the fins. However the lights just went out and both of them went to different corners to sleep. I was able to get the flashlight out and check their fins. For sure one of them is a male. I see a few dots on the fins. The other one I'm not too sure of. There are no dots, but the fins are injured. There are white blotted spots, not the characteristic male spots but who knows maybe they'll come back. They were not fighting when the lights were on though so that was a good sign.

Maybe I"ll get a decent pic tomorrow.