OT - Anyone know about running ethanol fuel in their car?

[NanoKat]

Just got an interesting email that got me thinking. I also found this website promoting ethanol:

http://www.whitelightning.net/

I found a kit on the web for under $400 for my car and it looks like ethanol is alot cheaper than regular gas. It also has higher octane so don't know whether that's good or bad. Not that I'm jumping on the badwagon right now, it just seems like a viable choice for many of us who are feeling the impact of high gas prices and of course to reduce emissions.

Any insight into this would be appreciated.

Oh, and on a side note, there are "U-Gas" stations in the area that are starting to sell 85% ethanol/15% gas in the area. That's the other reason I was thinking about it...since it seems that they'll be opening up more as time goes on.

I'm just curious about long term issues from running a fuel such as this...if it's okay on the engine or not...considering I drive my cars to 150k and above, I'm keen on preserving the integrity of my motor.

 

[Jojoyojimbi]

i'm from iowa, ethanol capital of the world, and you will never ever, no matter what get a concisive answer for the is it ok question, we haven't in 50 years

there is the possibility that it will wear out your engine faster you have to weigh the risk against your desire to use a renewable fuel and your desire to save money, ethanol doesn't really produce less polution than gas so it's not really a factor

 

[bawla47]

even tho its cheaper, i dont know if it still weighs out tho, but ive seen and if you look up, the numbers for cars that run with flex fuel,


cars that can run with either reg gas or ethanol, EVERY car ive seen there gas mileage numbers are alot lower with ethanol then with regular gas.

 

[lilfishbigreef]

Well Kat to be honest, i am not sure what to tell ya other than what is happening to my truck!

i have 2000 Silverado, with over 160k miles on it, and i have always used BP or Chevron 93 octane ONLY, since recent changes with the addition of 10% ethanol, the performance and MPG of my truck has gone down to the point that it is very noticable and i dont like, i am researching it further, contacting GM and so forth....

but from what i hear and understand, ethanol (in any amount) for non E85 vehicles is not a good thing. it damages seals and so on in your engine and fuel lines over time. this is hear-say, i dont know the facts!

 

[ReefWreak]

Hopefully Ben (venon00viper) will chime in here since he's the one who warned us about ethanol in our regular gasoline engines locking them up.

 

[pf1130]

To keep my answer short, the basics are that ethanol as a fuel has the advantage of having a much higher octane than gasoline. The problems with ethanol are several. For your particular situation the problem is your vehicle isn't designed to handle ethanol. And if even if you had a flex fuel vehicle with the computer programming to adjust fuel curves for ethanol gas and the appropiate fuel lines etc your mileage with ethanol would suffer. Ethanol has a lower energy density than gasoline. Therefore even though E85 would be cheaper for you to purchase, your mileage would suffer and negate that fact. It is possible to build an ethanol engine that produces better efficiency than its gasoline counterpart. This can be done by increasing the compression ratio of the engine to take advantage of ethanol's higher octane rating. The problem with this approach is that then this engine would have a compression ratio that would prevent it from running on pump gas. And as you know ethanol is available everywhere. So in short, I dont recommend it. Aside from the fact that ethanol is a solvent that dislodges deposits and clogs filters, lines etc bringing problems in older vehicles.

 

[NanoKat]

Okay, that's enough reasonable information. I was just curious...thought that much of the website information I found might just be propaganda of one sort or another. I thought I had read about ethanol having detrimental effects on regular gas engines, so I kinda wondered. The "kit" that you can buy to switch over replaces only a couple of parts on the engine, so I figured that there could still be other issues.

Too bad my car's not a diesel, otherwise I'd be checking out our local fast food joints for used cooking oil!

 

[venom00viper]

I will add that we have been replacing BMW motors at customers expense alot lately due to ethanol. Most trade their car in. Ethanol acts like alcohol. We use alcohol to clean up oily messes. Ethanol does some the the same things to a motor. Flexfuel cars have been made with special coatings and larger tolerances. Ethanol have a very low octane rating. 93 octane unleaded with 10% ethanol is the same as using 87. High compression engines, i.e european and performance, will surely fail with lower octane. Most american cars made for 2008 are flex fuel vehicles. I have been struggling to find a station that does not add up to 10% ethanol. It is making my mazda6 run like crap and get horrible mileage. Was told by a GM tech to never purchase, or keep with out factory warranty, a flexfuel vehicle. Longevity on these motors is limited, and costly to repair. Good luck to everyone out there. Looks like diesel is the only safe solution right now.

-ben

 

[pf1130]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13065251#post13065251 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by venom00viper
Ethanol have a very low octane rating. 93 octane unleaded with 10% ethanol is the same as using 87.
I have been struggling to find a station that does not add up to 10% ethanol. It is making my mazda6 run like crap and get horrible mileage.
-ben

Actually, ethanol blends have higher octane numbers than pure gasoline blends. Pure Ethanol has an octane rating of around 115. The reason why you are seeing a decrease in performance and mileage is because ethanol produces less heat energy per lb. In that regard its like a methanol (alcohol) engine, you have to put more fuel in to get the same power out (all else being equal). Regardless of the reason why, I agree with you and hate the fact they are forcing this 10% ethanol blend down our throats. Its an even bigger issue with boats where the fuel sits in tanks unused for long periods of time :mad2:

 

[Spooky208]

The diiference in the cost compared to the mileage you get on ethanol works out to be the same. The guys at the dealership I work at don't even use ethanol gas and almost all of them have flex fuel cars.

 

[NanoKat]

Maybe I'll just pick one of these up and run cooking oil in it!

 

[Jojoyojimbi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13074318#post13074318 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NanoKat
Maybe I'll just pick one of these up and run cooking oil in it!

better cost per gallon that way than with anything froma pump, but eventually the tax department will come after you for not paying road taxes on your fuel, there was a story out of illinois two years or so ago where an elderly couple started to use oil in their diesel mercedes and the tax men beat down their door and arrested them, charged them with all kinds of fines and said they had to have a special kind of permit to be able to use cooking oil as fuel

long story short the permit was $2000 which completely negate their entire savings every year so it wasn't worth it for them, plus the state of illinois is retarded with their permitting and wouldn't even give them out without some other form that you can't get without a permit sort of deal, some sort of cyclical logic was in place that made it impossible to get for personal use

 

[ReefWreak]

You should be able to legitimately buy biodiesel (versus cooking oil) for similar if not cheaper prices than real diesel. biodiesel.org or something has a googlemaps finder for biodiesel stations like we have for FMAS and LFS. Biodiesel also burns incredibly cleanly versus refined diesel. Check it out on wikipedia.