OT: Auto dealer legal advice

[Jflip2002]

Listen, for the record..... A BMW CPO is absolute BS. Do you know how many cars are bought from auctions, and brought "up to standard" and made CPO's? More than we'd all like to believe. So many cars, I can think of an Imola red E46 328ci (It may have been a 323ci) that was hammered. You could see the overspray on the frame, from the body work. There was paint on the bottom of the radiator, etc. There was obvious past body work. The car had the services done, tires replaced, all the good stuff that it needed to be a BMW CPO.... The main thing you are buying is the warranty of the CPO, not necessarily a pristine car. The dealer gambles and hopes that the problems occur after the warranty is up. Its sad, but true. I love BMWs, specifically older 3s (The E30s) and 5ers (E39s and even some E34s), but some of their gimmicks are just that.... gimmicks. Youre better served leasing a new BMW, with 0 liability

Take it to court, fight it, and hope for the best.

 

[gcarroll]

Bromion, how long have you had the car?

 

[bromion]

Since April 18th. 2 weeks. I brought the matter to the dealership's attention last Thursday.

 

[Jflip2002]

Dont try something crazy like intentionally messing the car up (motor etc). There are sensors. Ive seen this done before, lol

 

[gcarroll]

Best part about suing for rescission is that in most cases, the other party becomes more willing to work out the issue. Here is some more info on rescission due to fraud.


Fraud: The type of "fraud" sufficient to support a unilateral rescission may be either an "actual fraud" (misrepresentation with intent to deceive) or a "constructive fraud" (misleading conduct without fraudulent intent to the prejudice of the other party). A presumption of constructive fraud may arise where there is inadequate consideration for the rescinding party's performance and especially where the parties are in a confidential relationship. [Ca Civil § 1572 (defining "actual fraud") & § 1573 (defining "constructive fraud")]

Even an innocent misrepresentation, made in good faith and with a reasonable belief in its truth, may provide a basis for rescission if it related to a material fact upon which the rescinding party relied in consenting to the contract. Although neither a specifically-enumerated ground for rescission nor the equivalent of "fraud," innocent misrepresentation supports rescission as a type of "mistake".

Whereas proof of damages is an essential prerequisite to a fraud cause of action seeking damages, a defrauded party has the right to rescind a contract even without a showing of pecuniary damages. The rule derives from the basic principle that a contracting party has a right to what it contracted for, and so has the right to rescind where he obtain[ed] something substantially different from that which he [is] led to expect.

Since the goal of rescission is to restore the parties to the precontract status quo, courts ordinarily will not grant relief based upon rescission where the rescinding party is unable to restore substantially all of the consideration he or she received under the contract--i.e., unless the contract is divisible because supported by severable consideration, it cannot be "partially rescinded." However, this rule may be relaxed in cases of fraud. Here, even though the contract is not severable and the innocent party cannot restore the identical consideration, courts may grant a partial rescission that nonetheless produces an equitable result.

 

[j-soler]

hey brominion, as a former dealership technician the very best advice i can give you is...the squeeky whell gets the grease. ive seen customers that were totally scamming the dealers come away with thousands because they annoyed the GM so much that whatever they wanted they got.
i was the guy doing the inspections and i cant speak for BMW but ford will not allow a prior wrecked vehicle to be sold as a "certified" vehicle. having said that sonic has a very bad reputation amongst insiders, they are only there to gain a proffit and court might be your only option but small claims has a very small cap i think its around 7-8grand. best of luck and keep on squeeking till there ears blead
tony

 

[lowbudget]

doesnt carfax have a thing about if their report is wrong they pay some amount back or that they take the car back?

 

[Jflip2002]

Small claims is about $3k. Your ford dealership would have also certified this vehicle, since no accident showed up on the carfax, right? Just sayin...

 

[lowbudget]

CARFAX Buyback Guarantee

 

[G35WiLL]

No, the carfax buyback guarantee only works if the DMV has a record of the accidents, but doesn't show up on carfax.

 

[j-soler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14941453#post14941453 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jflip2002
Small claims is about $3k. Your ford dealership would have also certified this vehicle, since no accident showed up on the carfax, right? Just sayin...

The carfax report is only a guide or added measure of security. The technician is the one who performes the inspection, if the tech missed or overlooked anything then it would be his or her fault. Also keep in mind that most dealers' used car department is completely ran by the used car manager. They buy used cars in an auction, they can't drive the cars prior to purchasing them and only have 24 hours aftre they receive them to have them inspected. If anything is found at a later time they are stuck with the vehicle. Also for used car managers its mainly a numbers game, they see a vehicle they like and set a cap on the amount they are willing to pay based on Kelly blue book and the going market. Most of those vehicles are lease returns that have MINOR scratches and dings. These are usually repaired by a paintless dent repairman and a mobile bumper repairman/painter for a couple of hundred dollars(you'll be surprized how inexpensive they can be). Used car managers rely on then difference between the depreciation of a vehicle (due to blemishes or maintenance needed) and their cost of repair. To make a proffit.

 

[Jflip2002]

I understand how the game works. Ive never seen a technician go up to a vehicle with a magnet to check for bondo. I've also never seen a tech look at the frame and other places for overspray of new paint. Hell, i dont even know if they check all the body panels for matching VINs (Id hope they do).

How would the dealership, or even your dealership, know this car was damaged if they ran a Carfax on the vehicle, and it comes up clear? Thats all Im saying. While I feel for Bromion, it may not have been a malicious act by the dealer. In times like these, they know you arent coming back any time soon for a new car, and they will take the sale, IMO. Thats how the BMW dealership i just recently worked for was operated at least.

 

[audiowerks]

carfax doesn't always catch everything, A stereo customer of mine that ran a bodyshop in the SB area, told me that carfax would pay for information on all vehicles that had boywork done, but since the amount was so small and the actual payment took months to get they never reported to carfax anything that came through the shop,
because of this, and the fact that I've bought lein sale vehicles that had mechanical and body damage but still clean carfax i dont have a high opinion of carfax anymore.

 

[Jflip2002]

Same here James. The first time my girlfriend crashed her car, she took it to a body shop (obviously) and they said "Oh this cars been in an accident before". They showed the proof of it, and they were right. The carfax was clean. I was just saying the dealers covered their path by running a carfax, so howd they know.

 

[audiowerks]

i know, everybody seems to rely on carfax and i personally think its a joke, I always think its better to take it to a trusted mechanic or bodyman.

 

[Reefer Brian]

I have had waranty work done on my vehicle(new transmission) and it never showed on Carfax either(I checked months after).

Moral to the story...DONT BUY A USED CAR...CERTIFIED OR NOT.

 

[j-soler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14942862#post14942862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jflip2002
I understand how the game works. Ive never seen a technician go up to a vehicle with a magnet to check for bondo. I've also never seen a tech look at the frame and other places for overspray of new paint. Hell, i dont even know if they check all the body panels for matching VINs (Id hope they do).

How would the dealership, or even your dealership, know this car was damaged if they ran a Carfax on the vehicle, and it comes up clear? Thats all Im saying. While I feel for Bromion, it may not have been a malicious act by the dealer. In times like these, they know you arent coming back any time soon for a new car, and they will take the sale, IMO. Thats how the BMW dealership i just recently worked for was operated at least.

that is what the inspection is for. didnt bromion' s personal technician find the damadge? would you buy a car sight unseen based on the carfax repot?(i wouldnt) it seems you relly heavily on this to back up the dealer. i dont think anyone deliberatly tried to screw bromion, however i do think the tech missed some things on their inspection or the used car manager decided to overlook them or better yet the evidence brominions tech found was the result of something found on the inspection and a crappy repair was done.
magnet check, vin check or otherwise a good inspection would have sufficed THATS WHAT IM SAYIN. a sale based on hard times doesnt make a wrong a right.

 

[Jflip2002]

Whos to say that a certified car can not have been previously damaged? "Fit and Finish" of the body work is what is to be examined during the process. So if the car has a nice paint job, and all the body looks straight and orderly, theres nothing wrong with what the tech did. Its nothing black and white, its all within your jurisdiction, or the tech's at least.

 

[j-soler]

i think were trying to make the same point jflip.

 

[khaosinc]

One thing that might get you what you want is to just make alot of public noise.

Take a nice big picket sign in front of the dealership saying something to the extent that this dealer sold a previously wrecked car as a certified BMW and won't do anything about it. Keep eveything honest and theres not much they can do about it.

Bet you have a check in under an hour.