OT: The GREEN Thread!

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14882228#post14882228 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 61scout80
Biodiesel stuff

When I do buy a TDI Jetta (as I plan to once I (hopefully) acquire a career after college this spring), I won't actually be putting biodiesel in it. My buddy that I referenced above is actually looking at several hundred to possibly a couple thousand in engine repairs due to poor quality controls and impurities found in fuel purchased from AZ Biodiesel.

This is actually one of the biggest hippies I've ever known and it really shocked me when he told me that he wasn't going to be using Biodiesel again anytime soon. At the moment, he's still running his gas-based vehicle, because he needs a new (among other things) turbo charger since it's so full of biodiesel sludge.

Biodiesel could potentially be REALLY good stuff, but unfortunately it's just not there yet.

More info: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/518678-bio-diesel.html

 

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

Wanted to give this thread a bump. I found this store in Scottsdale just north of the Pranksters meeting area. Its called AKA Green, and they help people come up with green ideas as well as help put you in touch with the right people and materials. I thought it was worth sharing. http://www.akagreen.com/index.php

 

[K' Family Reef]

be wary of telemarketing for solar panels

last year we had someone call to try set up appt to hear their 'pitch'
normally we dont listen to telemarketers... being that it pertained to solar panels we thought we would listen... the person told us there were new state AND federal laws that would pay for the solar panels themselves... not believing it and sounding TOO GOOD to be TRUE... after questioning the person several times - thought how could they call advertise ('no cost to you') then show up w/ a different story... neither my wife nor i believed it but we went ahead and set up an appt thinking what do we have to lose but a little of our time...

sure enough they come out
we listen to pitch (while cooking/eating dinner) watch some video on their computer... they tell us about all the 'freebies' grants etc for these panels...

then we only had to pay so many thousands of dollars
for the whole deal... and they would finance at some OUTRAGEOUS interest rate if we needed it.


what ever happened to NO COST TO YOU ???
that obviously wasnt the case and the sales guy packed up his stuff apologizing for the 'inconvenience' and saying that the 'telemarketer' must have been dishonest etc when setting up the appt...

how does anyone expect to make a sale like that?


think hawaii is passing a law that goes into effect 2010
that all new homes being built will need to have solar panels installed... seems like something that should have been passed a long time ago here in az.


edit
here is a link about the hawaii law being passed
http://www.khnl.com/Global/story.asp?s=8550815

 

[K' Family Reef]

re diesel cars
used to have a car dealers license while going to college back in the '90s... would buy/sell few cars each month (wholesale) thru the car dealers auction... at that time at least whenever a diesel car would come thru the line... the value would always be cut in half (so never bought one)... if it was book listed at 10k wholesale - if it was diesel then the value would be half of that... so diesels didnt hold their value compared to gas burning cars...

very possible that today that situation might be reversed...
but dont know bec no longer involved in that business... seems that diesel burning cars would actually be more 'desirable' today thus bringing a higher price perhaps even over regular gas burners.

our neighbor has a diesel vw (jetta or something)
think he said he gets around 50+ mpg mixed driving in town/hwy... if i could find one would love to get a mercedes turbo diesel!... have a friend of mine who has had one (later model) for i dont know how many hundreds of thousands of miles he has put on it... and still runs strong... he has always advocated diesel (even back in the '90s when they werent so popular) as being cleaner/better burning fuels for our environment.

here is an article describing differences regular gas vs diesel
(effects on environment etc)

http://ezinearticles.com/?Diesel-vs...hich-is-Better-for-the-Environment?&id=946207

regards

 

[scott11]

psimitry-

just because one company put out bad fuel doesn't mean the technology is not there. I cant speak for the quality of AZbiodiesel, since I have never seen their tests, but I do know them, and am surprised to hear of those issues.

Something people don't know about bio diesel is that is it an amazing solvent. It is recommended that if you want to run bio in an older vehicle to have a few fuel filters on hand, since it will virtually clean the inside of your fuel tank. Fuel tanks often have sludge build up. Once you filter this out, everything runs great. I don't know about your friend, but this may have been the case. We run bio in all our equipment, (chevy trucks, freightliners, a benz, biolers, generators, air compressors, etc) and have not had fuel issues. We have also been producing and selling fuel for over a year to major suppliers and have never had an issue.

I am the quality control manager for a different local bio diesel company, and our specs are well above ASTM specs that all the auto manufacturers approve. We test our fuel in house, and have 3rd party certified labs test as well. Nothing would ever leave our site unless it was 100% safe to run in a vehicle. We don't sell directly to the public at fueling stations at this time, we sell to distributors, or bulk buyers.

If you are interesting bio diesel looking BQ9000, it is a quality program for producers, similar to ISO9000. I believe that bio diesel is the best option at the moment, as long as it in not food based like ethanol, or soy diesel. There are imperfections, such as cold weather use, but that is being constantly improved upon. For the record, we are not BQ9000, although I am submitting our application this week.

All of our feedstock comes from waste products, so we do not affect the food chain at all. Obviously some energy is consumed to product the fuel, but we use solar energy when possible, and run generators and boilers on bio diesel to reduce emissions.

You should also know that many states are passing, or working towards passing a minimum bio diesel blend 1%-5% on all diesel, very similar to the ethanol blend in gas.

Sorry for the rant, I just find lots of poor information on biodiesel out there.

 

[scott11]

also- on the algea to fuel --

I think this an amazing potential, if I remember correctly the yield per acre is huge so it takes less land and resources to product more fuel. Many, many people are working on this technology. It is possible to do, just not yet on a commercial scale. I would expect another 5 or more years before the algea fuel really takes off, there are a lot of challenges in harvesting the oil from the algea.

If anyone has more questions about bio diesel feel free to ask me.

 

[K' Family Reef]

talking about 'green' cars etc

how about making the toyota prius (and related silent running cars)
modified in some way so people walking thru parking lots can 'hear' the car when its started and backing up etc... but ESPECIALLY for cyclists/pedestrians who share the roadway... have been surprised on several occasions in parking lots when all of sudden the car starts moving and didnt realize it was running... or like today on our bike ride... prius pulled up and around as approached a stop lite (driven by seniors) to make a rt hand turn in front of us... didnt 'hear' it coming at all.

this imo is a serious issue...
the cars are completely silent - perhaps they should have some type of a 'muffler' to increase the running 'noise' for safety reasons...

regards

 

[GlaringToast]

They should all be required to blast rap music so you know to avoid them, just like any other car doing so :lol:

 

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15242449#post15242449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune's Oasis
Diesel value low stuff

There could be a few reasons for this. If it was a GM diesel on a '80s car, I'm not surprised. GM had a SPECTACULARLY awful diesel engine design in their 80s vehicles that they produced wherein the engine block and head had different thermal expansion rates and therefore blew headgaskets like... well let's just say that the metaphor involves "ladies of the night." My parents had one and couldn't WAIT to get rid of that diesel.

Current truck diesels aren't THAT much better. They're designed for torque and tow capacity as opposed to fuel efficiency (though they do pick up a BIT of fuel efficiency compared to their gasser cousins).

European hi efficiency diesels are a completely different animal. They are very much built for fuel efficiency (even though with a computer upgrade, they can get much MUCH better), and the engines themselves will be running long after the rest of the car has fallen apart, as would be common for automakers where the fuel economy is almost completely diesel based.

 

[K' Family Reef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15246893#post15246893 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by psimitry

Originally posted by Neptune's Oasis Diesel value low stuff

There could be a few reasons for this. If it was a GM diesel on a '80s car, I'm not surprised. GM had a SPECTACULARLY awful diesel engine design in their 80s vehicles that they produced wherein the engine block and head had different thermal expansion rates and therefore blew headgaskets like... well let's just say that the metaphor involves "ladies of the night." My parents had one and couldn't WAIT to get rid of that diesel.

Current truck diesels aren't THAT much better. They're designed for torque and tow capacity as opposed to fuel efficiency (though they do pick up a BIT of fuel efficiency compared to their gasser cousins).

European hi efficiency diesels are a completely different animal. They are very much built for fuel efficiency (even though with a computer upgrade, they can get much MUCH better), and the engines themselves will be running long after the rest of the car has fallen apart, as would be common for automakers where the fuel economy is almost completely diesel based.

Originally posted by Neptune's Oasis Diesel value low stuff

well that was not 'exactly' my quote
word per word but i guess the 'point' was made... although i usually write w/ a 'lil more 'panache' then that!...



and i wasnt really referring to american cars at all
at that time i wouldnt consider purchasing an american car period... regular or diesel burning (although they have improved in quality in more recent times)... only purchased imports... so the diesel cars that i would see and check nada (wholesale) blue book value (at car auctions during that time) were usually mercedes, vw, volvo, etc etc etc... which the same 'drop' in price occurred for these as well... my friend started a business and needed a 'diesel' truck for the pulling power and i strongly advised her against anything american... but she went ahead and purchased i believe was a chevy diesel... ended up being the biggest piece of garbage of just about any vehicle i have ever heard of (comparable to 'hyundai' when first came out - iow very low quality, lemons etc)... trany, motor, door panels, radio... just about anything and everything related to this car was garbage!... and it sits today in the back of her property looking the way it drives.




few years back went to europe
something that was very noteworthy at the time... was how nearly every car on the road was like what we see coming out today here in the USA... small.. .smart cars... yugos ( :lol: )... etc etc (= tiny small fuel efficient cars)... when going (in europe) to a parking lot such as grocery store/mall etc etc... if there was a single large vehicle in the lot IT STOOD OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB... so iow you might be able to count in an entire parking lot 3-5 big oversized MCcars (and usually american trucks caddys etc)... that appeared so far above and beyond the 'norm' that they just didnt fit in and were 'obvious' to the naked eye... my friend who is a french national had told me how expensive gas was over there (compared to the usa)... but when i got over there and saw the posted prices... then did the currency 'conversion' it didnt seem high at all... in fact appeared even less then the usa... so when i mentioned this to her - she pointed out the listed price was PER LITER (3.79 liters/US gal)... so the price was in the $6+ per gallon price range.. so what we are going thru TODAY here in the usa... that is DOWNSIZING all our supersized MCtrucks/MCcars... they went thru a long ago...

that being said
i am keeping my toyota 4runner and in fact going to be getting another one here in the next few mos (wholesale of course! )... until our streets look like the streets in europe - that is cars predominately 'fuel' efficient small economical cars... then i wont be transporting my family around town in a 'yugo'... i will pay the difference in gas price just for 'safety' for my family... my wife also has a toyota car (small/economical)... but as soon as we found out she was pregnant w/ our first child - i gave her the keys to my 4runner and she has been driving it every since!

in fact there is probably a 'better' name
(or more descripitive) for these 'SMART' cars on the road today... and it AINT smart!
:thumbsup:

regards

 

[truthdesigns]

We switched to a push mower and got rid of the gas mower!

 

[KarlBob]

1st off, re: Smart(?) cars.
When the road is filled with Hummers, driving a Smart is not safe. I've seen a video of a collision test between a Smart ForTwo and a BMW sedan. The Smart bounced into the air and spun around before coming down. The best safety cage in the world cannot make up for a two-fold or three-fold difference in mass between two vehicles.

That being said, every person who buys a Smart, or a Yaris, or any of the other new tiny cars, is making our roads look that much more like European roads. If nobody bought tiny cars because there were still large cars on the road, then the cars on the road would never get any smaller. If gas prices stay high, or get higher, and more people buy tiny cars, then eventually our roads will look like European roads, and the Hummer-collision argument will no longer apply. The early adopters are taking the highest risk, which is what early adopters always do.

By the same token, you can't rely on bigger vehicles being safer, either. SUVs in particular tend to roll easier than other vehicles. I knew a woman a few years back who thought she'd always be safer in a 1970s/80s model car with a steel body than in an aluminum and composite car. Steel is harder to crush, but those steel cars weren't designed with crumple zones, so you get crushed along with the steel.

Re: Biodiesel
In the early days of any particular business, everyone has to figure out how to do things, and there is very little standardization. Production methods differ widely, as do the products themselves. Biodiesel is in that stage now.

Companies like the one scott11 works for will eventually be part of a "standard system" for making and selling biodiesel. Right now, though, many of the companies out there are just jumping into a field that looks profitable, and don't know how to make a consistent, high-quality product. Similarly, someone who scales up from producing their own biodiesel in a 55 gallon drum to selling it to service stations doesn't necessarily understand quality control.

The companies that can't produce reliable products will eventually be weeded out, but for the moment, the low-quality products throw suspicion on the high-quality products. At this point, it's "buyer beware", with all the problems that entails.

Re: Algae
Some of the algae-to-oil projects plan to use enclosed systems to grow algae, often forcing the algae/water mixture through clear tubes exposed to sunlight. It's much more efficient than growing algae in a pond that's open to evaporation. The problem, as many of us know, is that it can be hard to control which species of algae grow in a system. For example, wild hair algae strains could wreak havoc in facilities that count on their algae to act like cyano or diatoms. Someone will figure out how to keep the wild strains out, but it will take a while.

Re: (non-bio-) Diesel
The US doesn't use diesel as much as the Europeans for various reasons. Older formulations of diesel produced lots of emissions. Most of the service stations on the road are set up to dispense gasoline (yes, this one's a vicious cycle). The big manufacturers have invested huge quantities of money in the gasoline infrastructure, and switching to anything else will cost money. In some ways, clean diesel would be a good choice for the US, but I don't think it will take over quickly.

 

[KarlBob]

Re: Priusae (Pria? Priuses?)
I don't think car companies would ever install back-up horns on passenger cars without the Government forcing the issue. This is another transitional problem. Right now, Prius-types are the only cars that can back up silently. If electric vehicles begin to take over from internal combustion, you won't be able to rely on engine noise to predict what cars in a parking lot will do. Even now, the brake lights should give a good clue that the car is about to back up.

By "muffler", I think you mean a noisemaker. A Prius running on battery power isn't pushing any air through the tailpipe, so messing with the muffler won't help. An electric noisemaker that operates when the car is moving would be producing noise for the sole purpose of being heard. Again, this is another transition issue. When all the cars are nearly silent, you'll be able to hear a Prius coming up behind you. The tires will crunch on junk in the road. You can't hear that now over the noise of other cars' engines.

Re: Preaching to the Choir
Yes, we are. The people who aren't doing anything positive for the environment are not likely to read this thread, either. I think we can all start from a baseline assumption that the person reading our message is trying to help in their own way. "More-Green-Than-Thou" contests won't do us any good, but sharing ideas that not everyone may have heard can be useful.

 

[OwenInAZ]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15257320#post15257320 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by truthdesigns
We switched to a push mower and got rid of the gas mower!

Seriously. Instead of arguing over which car is best, why not buy a bike and commute? No fuel to worry about then, although I did put a sticker on mine reading "53 miles per burrito."

 

[jpslickorocks]

I have to say I never recycled until Ryan and KK guilted me into starting Now I have convinced my roommate to start and we have been for over a year now. Realistically the only things worth recycling are aluminum and glass. Everything else just cost too much and and creates more waste to recycle. I think the simple answer is... Just don't be so wasteful. Recycle the things that are beneficial and try and reuse things before you throw them away.

To keep this on track here are a couple of things that I am doing, or trying to do.

1: Recycle glass and aluminum
2: I bought a half a dozen cloth grocery bags about a year ago but I have yet to use them because I always forget. Hey I am trying
3: I do all my own oil changes and make sure to recycle the oil. Most auto parts stores will do this for you.
4: Shut off the lights when I am not in the room.

Here is an interesting article that caught my interest.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/how_your_house_works/4291566.html

 

[Stirfry001]

I've been running Bio-Diesel in my truck for 6+ months now. I can't believe how much better it runs and my gas mileage has gone up too (although I now get 15mpg instead of 14) which still sucks. lol. I get my fuel from AZBiodiesel as they are family friends and have never had a problem with their fuel. They claim 78% less emissions and my truck makes me hungry for french fries every time I drive....

 

[KarlBob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15261945#post15261945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jpslickorocks
I think the simple answer is... Just don't be so wasteful. Recycle the things that are beneficial and try and reuse things before you throw them away.

Exactly. Recycling grabs most of the media attention, but "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" are placed in that order for a reason. Reducing waste, especially planned waste like excessive packaging, can have a huge impact. Reusing items is a fantastic alternative to the "throw-it-away-buy-another-one" cycle. Recycling is helpful, but it does require energy, and for many things it's not very efficient.

Every item that isn't overpacked (Reduce), or isn't bought because you already have one (Reuse), is one more item that doesn't need to be Recycled.

Note: Yes, packaging is only one aspect of Reduction, but it's the first one I thought of.

 

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

I wanted to bump this thread back up and I have found a few very helpful sites that I wanted to share.

www.earth911.com Is a site that you type in your zip code and what you are looking to recycle and it will pop up your option by distance first. I had an old TV that no longer worked and I typed that into earth911 and it came back with my local best buy. I had no idea best buy would take my old tv back for recycling.

http://www.freecycle.org/ is a site like craigslist but it is strictly for free stuff. You can post things you have to give away and things wanted. Another great site for you to get rid of stuff you no longer want but that could be useful to someone else, instead of sending it to the dump. The site seems a bit slow though.

1-800-732-9254 is an automated system that takes you zip code and then asks you what your looking to recycle. It will then search its database and give you options on where to recycle your item. The automated system goes a bit fast but you can repeat the options if need be.

Supporting locally grown foods is also a great way to be green. There are a number of Farmers markets in the valley. My wife and I plan to start our own large garden this spring.

 

[NaClH20NMYVEIN]

Earth Day bump

 

[Frank AZ]

Ahh earth day...... good thing I biked to work today! (as I do every day!)

Too bad its getting too hot - I had been enjoying biking to Pranksters for Frag! (20 miles for me)