Overflow still won't work
- Thread starter csb
- Start date
csb
New member
I could take a picture of it, but it's not really in a clear view behind the tank. I'd have to remove it... might be doing that tonight anyway in order to randomly try other **** that won't make any difference.
The bottom of the u-tube(s) are about an inch or so up from the bottom of the box. I also removed the duro temporarily to see if that improved the flow, but it didn't. When the pump isn't running (it so far has only run when I've been testing the box) the siphon never breaks because the drain is higher than the bottom of the siphon.
I'm going to order a box from Jeff @ lifereef someday (he's not really a "I need it yesterday" kind of supplier), but in the meantime, I think I'll try to find a way to reduce the flow coming from the mag5. I used all vinyl tubing to help get max flow by simply not having 5 million 90 degree pvc elbows. But now, I need to perhaps find a way to reliably pinch off the tubing for now and hopefully that'll convince the damn thing to work in the interim until I get the lifereef overflow 10 years from now.
The bottom of the u-tube(s) are about an inch or so up from the bottom of the box. I also removed the duro temporarily to see if that improved the flow, but it didn't. When the pump isn't running (it so far has only run when I've been testing the box) the siphon never breaks because the drain is higher than the bottom of the siphon.
I'm going to order a box from Jeff @ lifereef someday (he's not really a "I need it yesterday" kind of supplier), but in the meantime, I think I'll try to find a way to reduce the flow coming from the mag5. I used all vinyl tubing to help get max flow by simply not having 5 million 90 degree pvc elbows. But now, I need to perhaps find a way to reliably pinch off the tubing for now and hopefully that'll convince the damn thing to work in the interim until I get the lifereef overflow 10 years from now.
MayoBoy
Movin' on Up
It sounds like the outside box is handling the flow just fine - if it weren't, IT would be overflowing. The problem seems to be getting the water from the tank to the outside box.
How are you getting the water into the inside box? Is the inside overflow smooth or does it have teeth? How is it attached to the tank? It's not moving is it?
How are you getting the water into the inside box? Is the inside overflow smooth or does it have teeth? How is it attached to the tank? It's not moving is it?
csb
New member
The inside has teeth ... I made them with a dremel tool. I think the inside box handles the flow just fine... it keeps up with the water level in the tank... it all just keeps rising until I yank the power from the pump to keep the tank from overflowing.
If the internal box was the problem, I'd expect the water level inside to be much lower than the level of the tank, but that's not the case.
Originally, I had explored the idea that the u-tube wasn't getting the job done... so I added another. Right now I have 2 3/4" u-tubes in the box for 1.5" of u-tube capacity ... and originally, that alone didn't make a difference. It wasn't until I combined both the increased u-tube capacity with forcing the durso into a full siphon (toilette flushing) was it able to keep up!.
Since I had already increased the u-tube capacity, the durso experiment told me that the drain capacity needed to be increased. However, I've increased the drain capacity and the whole thing still won't keep up. Unfortunately, with the bigger 1" parts on the durso, I'm not able to force it to a full siphon either.
Just to note, the top of the outer box is level with the top of the tank... it will only overflow if the tank overflows.
I really don't know why it's not working. The last thing I can think of is the 1" barb fitting beneath the bulkhead. The ID of the 1" fitting is 3/4" which might still be restricting the new 1" drain to the same capacity of the 3/4" drain, thus resulting in the lack of any improvement that I'm seeing. I'm going to see if I can find another barb fitting with a 1" ID , so the drain would then be a full 1" from the top of the durso right down to the sump. If that doesn't change anything, then my vote goes back to voodoo magic.
In the meantime, Jeff at lifereef has been emailing me and I'm going to get one of his overflows eventually, but I'd still like to get this one working in some capacity temporarily.
If the internal box was the problem, I'd expect the water level inside to be much lower than the level of the tank, but that's not the case.
Originally, I had explored the idea that the u-tube wasn't getting the job done... so I added another. Right now I have 2 3/4" u-tubes in the box for 1.5" of u-tube capacity ... and originally, that alone didn't make a difference. It wasn't until I combined both the increased u-tube capacity with forcing the durso into a full siphon (toilette flushing) was it able to keep up!.
Since I had already increased the u-tube capacity, the durso experiment told me that the drain capacity needed to be increased. However, I've increased the drain capacity and the whole thing still won't keep up. Unfortunately, with the bigger 1" parts on the durso, I'm not able to force it to a full siphon either.
Just to note, the top of the outer box is level with the top of the tank... it will only overflow if the tank overflows.
I really don't know why it's not working. The last thing I can think of is the 1" barb fitting beneath the bulkhead. The ID of the 1" fitting is 3/4" which might still be restricting the new 1" drain to the same capacity of the 3/4" drain, thus resulting in the lack of any improvement that I'm seeing. I'm going to see if I can find another barb fitting with a 1" ID , so the drain would then be a full 1" from the top of the durso right down to the sump. If that doesn't change anything, then my vote goes back to voodoo magic.
In the meantime, Jeff at lifereef has been emailing me and I'm going to get one of his overflows eventually, but I'd still like to get this one working in some capacity temporarily.
MayoBoy
Movin' on Up
If the internal box was the problem, I'd expect the water level inside to be much lower than the level of the tank, but that's not the case.
The water level in my inside box is ALWAYS lower than the tank - that's how I know it's flowing correctly. It's only equal when the U-tube is getting clogged.
The outside is fine since it's not the part that's overflowing - it HAS to be on the inside.
If the U-Tube capacity were greater than the outside box and drain, they would fill up and flood. Since they're not, we can eliminate that. It has to be either your U-tubes or your inside box. Drop your inside box as low as it can possibly go and see what happens.
I have to leave go pick up the kids now but I'll check back in an hour or so. (unless I have to turn Pinky Dinky Doo on again, in which case I'll be sticking an icepick in my eyes and ears)
The water level in my inside box is ALWAYS lower than the tank - that's how I know it's flowing correctly. It's only equal when the U-tube is getting clogged.
The outside is fine since it's not the part that's overflowing - it HAS to be on the inside.
If the U-Tube capacity were greater than the outside box and drain, they would fill up and flood. Since they're not, we can eliminate that. It has to be either your U-tubes or your inside box. Drop your inside box as low as it can possibly go and see what happens.
I have to leave go pick up the kids now but I'll check back in an hour or so. (unless I have to turn Pinky Dinky Doo on again, in which case I'll be sticking an icepick in my eyes and ears)
MayoBoy
Movin' on Up
OK, I thought about it some more on the way home.
Outside box isn't overflowing so that eliminates it as the problem.
Inside box isn't being sucked dry, so that probably eliminates it.
That leaves the U tube(s) They're 3/4"? Home made or storebought? A 3/4" interior would have an area of .4418 sq. in. A 1" about .785 sq. in. so both 3/4 are barely equal to a 1".
I think that the usual U tube is 1-1/4" which would be 1.22 sq in.
Any chance you can get a larger U tube or two 1"?
Outside box isn't overflowing so that eliminates it as the problem.
Inside box isn't being sucked dry, so that probably eliminates it.
That leaves the U tube(s) They're 3/4"? Home made or storebought? A 3/4" interior would have an area of .4418 sq. in. A 1" about .785 sq. in. so both 3/4 are barely equal to a 1".
I think that the usual U tube is 1-1/4" which would be 1.22 sq in.
Any chance you can get a larger U tube or two 1"?
Frankysreef
Active member
If you remove the durso... does it still overflow? This could be an air problem. Drill small 1/8 holes in the durso to allow for more air and more velocity of water...
I built the cheap durso with a T, and an elbow and end caps, and drill holes in the end caps to regulate flow.
I built the cheap durso with a T, and an elbow and end caps, and drill holes in the end caps to regulate flow.
GROSSR
Active member
The internal box shouldn't be the problem. I actually ran an overflow without the outside box. So long as the U tube gets enough water it will run fine. The purpose of the internal box, that is the box in the tank, is to skim the surface and prevent anything from entering the U tube and clogging it.
I would suggest, get rid of the durso and whatever and have just the overflow. Actually set the LEE box so the internal if completely full. Make sure nothing gets sucked in.
You do need to get the U tube to be completely full of water.
rich
I would suggest, get rid of the durso and whatever and have just the overflow. Actually set the LEE box so the internal if completely full. Make sure nothing gets sucked in.
You do need to get the U tube to be completely full of water.
rich
csb
New member
Well, it's running now, believe it or not. I had eliminated the durso yesterday, but still couldn't get it to flow. Tonight I eliminated the barb fitting beneath the bulkhead, and attached a 1.25" drain hose that came with my sump along with the 1" slip-fit bulkhead that came with the sump. Behold, it now flows. It's not pretty and it's very noisy without the durso, but it's flowing!!
Thanks for the help everyone, especially with my cranky attitude about the whole thing. Hopefully Jeff at lifereef will come through for me and I'll have a better, more trustworth overflow. I don't trust the DIY one yet ... this is the first time I've left the room in about 2 hours
Incidentally, I tried putting the durso back on and it didn't agree... apparently, the height of the inlet on the durso is just too high to allow for enough water level differential between the 2 boxes, knowing that the differential is what makes the water flow through the siphon tubes.
I could almost definitely run the durso if the outer box was deeper... unfortunately, it's impossible to get the durso inlet any lower, but without the durso, the overflow is keeping up for now.
The thing also won't run without both u-tubes... so it's apparently a combination of factors that conspired against me to make this issue hard to diagnose.
1. U-tube flow wasn't sufficient, and probably barely is now.
2. drain tube capacity wasn't enough.
3. Durso pipe inlet too high, can't go any lower
4. related to #3, height of outer box insufficient.
Also, the inner box is adjusted down the lowest level it can go. The water level in the tank is just a bit higher than I want, but it's very close. Unfortunately, the water level isn't in the range on the box that I had planned, so I'm not able to adjust the level any lower, but that's ok for now. Again, this is going to only run temporarily until the lifereef overflow arrives.
Thanks for the help everyone, especially with my cranky attitude about the whole thing. Hopefully Jeff at lifereef will come through for me and I'll have a better, more trustworth overflow. I don't trust the DIY one yet ... this is the first time I've left the room in about 2 hours
Incidentally, I tried putting the durso back on and it didn't agree... apparently, the height of the inlet on the durso is just too high to allow for enough water level differential between the 2 boxes, knowing that the differential is what makes the water flow through the siphon tubes.
I could almost definitely run the durso if the outer box was deeper... unfortunately, it's impossible to get the durso inlet any lower, but without the durso, the overflow is keeping up for now.
The thing also won't run without both u-tubes... so it's apparently a combination of factors that conspired against me to make this issue hard to diagnose.
1. U-tube flow wasn't sufficient, and probably barely is now.
2. drain tube capacity wasn't enough.
3. Durso pipe inlet too high, can't go any lower
4. related to #3, height of outer box insufficient.
Also, the inner box is adjusted down the lowest level it can go. The water level in the tank is just a bit higher than I want, but it's very close. Unfortunately, the water level isn't in the range on the box that I had planned, so I'm not able to adjust the level any lower, but that's ok for now. Again, this is going to only run temporarily until the lifereef overflow arrives.
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