Oyster Reef Ecosystem Tank

Also, their behavior may explain why I had a hard time catching blennies at one of my spots where I found plenty of them a week earlier (and a week later). We had a lot of rain that week. I always thought that they just went to deeper water (followed the salt wedge), but I bet that all they do is hunker down in their oyster shells or other cover.
 
Well, while attempting hyposalinity treatment in my 20g high, I successfully killed off...

...two skilletfish and all of my blennies. The last skilletfish may or may not be alive. There are at least three gobies still alive, not sure of the other two. The mummichogs are both doing well, as they are the only fish that are feeding. My guess is that the gobies and the remaining skilletfish won't make it.

The symptoms were, especially with the blennies, that they stopped eating, were swimming constantly against the glass trying to stay at the surface, breathing heavily, eyes were sunken in, and they kind of wasted away. I tried to spot feed them and it worked for a bit, but then they stopped trying to eat even then. It was as if they were blind.

I performed water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite down...not sure what happened. Maybe dropping the SG too fast caused osmotic shock, or perhaps there was an inadvertent drastic change in pH that I didn't know about. I didn't test for that, but that might explain a lot. Anyway, I'm bummed out big time.

In an attempt to save them, I started the slow process of raising the sg again, but ran out of time. I'm only up from 1.010 to 1.011 now. I should have studied a bit more and may have prevented this from happening.

The 20g long is doing very well, no signs of parasites, although I suspect that they're in there.

I really didn't want to even post about this, but perhaps someone will learn from my mistakes too. Therefore, I have no choice but to learn from my mistakes and move on with my project. I assumed way too much. I couldn't stand to see them scratching so much as they seemed like they were suffering. In retrospect, they were much happier prior to my treatment attempt. I've done more research on this treatment method since, and if I attempt it again later, will follow those protocols closely.

Perhaps the TTM method was the best choice after all. My only reservation on doing that was how to catch all of the fish and get them out of all those hiding spots...not easy at all.
 
Sorry to hear of your losses. Obviously, I feel your pain. We were in the same situation, not being able to catch all our fish, which limits what we can do, disease-wise.

It really does suck to confess to fish deaths, here on RC. I've done it a lot lately. Thankfully, most folks are very supportive. Who among us has NOT killed fish?

Of course the key is to learn from it. How will I prevent this in the future? For me, it will be strict quarantine, with bleach sterilization between treatments, so nothing passes from one to the next.

I think it also helps to focus on what went right. Although it's not exactly a huge victory, I am very happy I managed to save one gramma.
 
Thanks Michael. You are 100% correct. We've all lost fish, and it sucks to bring it up on forums like this. I guess what bothers me the most this time (compared to other times that I personally lost fish) is that it was a direct result of something that I did.

I know that the fish had parasites, but I don't think that was what caused their deaths. But, I also knew that if I did nothing, they'd eventually die from parasitism.

My lesson learned here is twofold, put quarantine procedures in place for the future (TTM method implementation perhaps), and also be much more careful when I implement a hypo treatment (if I go that route), and to make sure that I check multiple sources for how-to info and also look for posts about results (successes and failures), to cut that learning curve and perhaps save my fishes lives.
 
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oh, and it really sucks because I loved those fish, and miss them already. I feel like I did them wrong even though I know that my intentions were good. I owe it to my other tank inhabitants and also any future fish that I collect to do a better job.
 
oh, and it really sucks because I loved those fish, and miss them already. I feel like I did them wrong even though I know that my intentions were good. I owe it to my other tank inhabitants and also any future fish that I collect to do a better job.

To me, this is the hardest part. I feel badly for the fish when I have one that dies, regardless if it is my own fault. Sorry that you had those issues. You will come out better for it I'm sure. Life's a garden... dig it. :0)
 
Thanks McPuff.

I lost another skilletfish. The gobies aren't eating and I expect them to die. Other than not eating, they're behavior is a lot more normal than the other fish that passed away so maybe they'll pull through. The parameters look good, nitrates and ammonia zero, ph is OK, and the sg is 1.012. I'll raise it a point over the next two days.

What is weird to me is that the sudden drop in salinity to 1.010 from 1.016 that I did is far less drastic than some of the hypo treatment techniques that I've been reading about, specifically dropping wild caught marine fish directly into a QT tank at 1.008 sg. So, I don't think that caused the problem, but perhaps it was a pH issue, or maybe I waited too long and the disease was further along than I thought. They were scratching a lot, all of them.

Regarding hypo treatment, I've oversimplified a bit, there are lots of things other than sg to consider when doing it, and I wasn't aware of all that. So, this still could have been my fault. I just need to be much more careful next time. I think that I felt desperate to help them, and that actually was worse than if I had been more patient and read up a bit more about it.

My other tank is doing very well, no signs of scratching behavior. I haven't changed the sg on that tank. I have some cyanobacterial bloom still to deal with, but no biggie.
 
Emotional roller coaster ---> going into one room and working on and viewing the tank of death, then, heading into the other room to feed the tank that is thriving. This is the preferable order, because the 20g long is such a fun tank to watch and lift up my spirits.

In the 20g long, most of these fish respond to hand feeding. However, they're much more spooky than the adult fish were, especially after feeding. I kind of like that because they tend to behave and forage as they normally would in the wild. It's fun to watch the fish move in and out of the oyster cultches, forage, investigate, spar over temporary territory, establish or maintain the pecking order, and even try to figure out where the crabs are. I also found it difficult to count the numbers of each species as they're always moving in and out of hiding spots. A blenny can literally disappear into a hole in the structure on the right side of the tank and move nearly undetected through that structure and other bottom cover to the other side of the tank. Never a dull moment with this tank.

My only challenge with this tank is the cyano and keeping macros alive. In the death tank, the Ulva and other macro are doing fairly well. A comparison, in the 20g long, Ulva died off in about a month. In the 20g high tank of death, the Ulva has had very little die off and I collected a lot of it.

I really thought long and hard about the future of this project, how to be more careful, and what I can improve on. Until then, keep up on my water changes and test often.

Another goby died in the death tank. Three left, I think. The two killifish are fine. I noticed that one of the mud crabs survived, as did many of the shrimp.
 
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I don't think your rapid salinity drop killed your fish. I think it was the ICK. I remember thinking when you first mentioned the scratching, that it starts out so slowly that it tricks you into thinking that they'll be fine. That's what happened to me! In the confines of aquariums, ICK grows exponentially, hence the slow start then rapid devastation.

One thing I've learned from both of our experiences is that no fish is bullet-proof.

I look forward to more back-patting posts and less consoling ones! Onward and upward!
 
Thanks Michael.

...makes sense. I think my way forward is to gradually reduce the salinity and finish the hypo treatment, but do it more carefully. I want the parasites eradicated. Plus, I want the oyster cultches and anything that survives to move to the big tank parasite free.
 
This thread by Krullshards sounds just like what happened in my tank...velvet. Same symptoms and behavior. Perhaps shocking (salinity drop,pH, etc.) them accelerated the disease.

Velvet: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388424

If I had reacted sooner, when I first noticed the scratching, I might have been able to save them. Once they started swimming for the surface and ignoring food, they were doomed by then. Hypo wouldn't have worked.

Then again, flukes show similar symptoms and are not visible. I couldn't see any parasites on my fish...could have been flukes. Hypo should take care of flukes if they are present.
 
I wouldn't rely on hypo to treat flukes if you think that's what they have. Medicate the tank and feed them medicated foods. If you can catch the little guys, do a freshwater dip as well. In general, the medicated foods can't hurt and may be good prevention for other parasites such as worms, etc. (different meds sure, but not difficult to do). Just "thinking out loud."


This thread by Krullshards sounds just like what happened in my tank...velvet. Same symptoms and behavior. Perhaps shocking (salinity drop,pH, etc.) them accelerated the disease.

Velvet: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388424

If I had reacted sooner, when I first noticed the scratching, I might have been able to save them. Once they started swimming for the surface and ignoring food, they were doomed by then. Hypo wouldn't have worked.

Then again, flukes show similar symptoms and are not visible. I couldn't see any parasites on my fish...could have been flukes. Hypo should take care of flukes if they are present.
 
Thanks McPuff. All of the benthic fish are dead now, the last goby was found dead this morning. The only fish in the 20g high that are alive now are the two mummichogs. I think that I will take your advice trap them, then treat them in a separate container. Meanwhile, this tank will only have Ulva, grass shrimp, and at least one mud crab. I will let the tank go fallow until I get my main tank up, then transfer it all into the main tank. After that, this will be my permanent QT tank. I hate to say it, but the killifish fish really don't interest me, but I owe it to them since I collected them to give them my best efforts.
 
Michael, McPuff, and Subsea, I just want to say thanks for your support, suggestions and tips while following my thread. They're really helpful and appreciated.
 
My pleasure! RC has made this hobby so much more enjoyable for me. Showing off, sharing triumphs as well as defeats, and learning from each other adds so much to the experience. Fish deaths are embarrassing for all of us, but confessing our mistakes takes much more courage than just bailing on posting. We're here for each other, Brother!
 
The 20g high fish inhabitants are down to the 2 mummichogs, at lease one mud crab, and about a dozen grass shrimp. The SG is currently at 1.012. I plan to drop it back down to 1.008 and keep it there. From that point on, it will be my QT tank prior to introducing fish to the larger tank. If the killifish surive this, then they'll go in the display. If not, then I can also keep the tank fallow since I probably won't collect any more fish until next spring or summer.

The 20g long is doing great, as are the fish. Cyano seems to be dying back a little each day. My dilemma is what to do about this tank in preparation of the larger tank set up, because everything is going into the main tank. I believe in the hypo treatment, but am a little gun shy after what happened with the 20g high. If I do the hypo treatment in this tank, it will be done slow and carefully, watching pH closely too. Right now, I use a floating hydrometer. I also have one with the swinging arm. But, I'm considering purchasing a refractometer...rather, I plan on purchasing one. I won't continue until I do.

It's fascinating watching the fish totally ignore the mud crabs. They sit right next to them, land on them, sit on them, look at them, and the crabs do nothing in response. Once in a while, they'll raise their pincers a bit, but don't pinch, as if to shoo the fish away. More often, the crabs retreat to their hiding spots especially if the fish approach rapidly. The crabs seemed to stick to their hiding spots for longer periods of time.

These fish are still sub-adults or juveniles. They feed from my hand, but at the same time, they're very spooky and always on edge. The blennies move all around the structure, and when they do, they're always tight to the cover. When out in the open, if they're not feeding, then they don't stay there long. But, they don't sit and hide all the time, they're always on the move. Some of them have favorite hiding and perching spots, but they don't seem to be married to them. The blennies are the most assertive species in the tank, not fearing the other fish. They're more spooky about my presence. I kind of like that, because they tend to act normally except for at feeding time.

The gobies tend to hide and stick their heads out often, but aren't shy about being in the open. They can be skittish, but not quite like the blennies. They can be aggressive, and will chase anything away, but they are often chased more by the blennies than they other way around. The blennies sort of see them as a nuisance rather than fear them.

The skilletfish hide the most, but, they move around a lot too, most always attached to a shell or the glass, but sometimes hug the bottom, especially at feeding time.

4 out of the 6 blennies in the tank will take food from my hand. The other two, the smallest, sit on one side of the tank and wait for the current to bring their meals to them. 3 of the 6 skilletfish will take food from my hand, the others hunt food down or hang out near the 2 blennies. The gobies will sometimes take food from my hand, but the other fish chase them away. If they were the only species in there, then all of them would do it. The skilletfish stick to my hand when they feed, but they get territorial, and chase the blennies and gobies away as well as competing skilletfish. The blennies come right back though.

All of the fish mistake my hand for food at times and bite. The blennies tend to peck, but can bite a bit hard. The gobies put a lot of effort into biting and the bite is strong, but their teeth are much smaller, so don't grab much. The skilletfish have larger mouths and stronger jaws, and hence, the stronger bite, especially if they get ahold of a fold of skin. None of the bites hurt, but it is a good way to get to know the capabilities of your fish. I don't recommend testing triggerfish though :)
 
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The 20g tank is doing great. All of the fish are growing and seem healthy, and no scratching, thank goodness. They all eat like pigs.

I will shoot another video of the 20g long and post it soon. It is amazing to me how fast these fish grow. Some of the blennies were just a little bit over an inch long when I collected them, and now they're about 2-2.5" long now! All of the fish have grown, but the most growth has been with the blennies.

There are 4 crabs in this tank (2 different species of mud crabs), but I've only seen two of them now and then, both last night. I suspect that the other two are still in there but only come out at night if at all.

The grass shrimp numbers have decreased, at least I think, because I only counted three of them last night. There could be a few hidden in the macroalgae and within the oyster reef cultches though. I suspect that a few of them fell prey to the fish.

The bryozoan colonies have grown some, but not at the rate that they did early on during the life of this tank.
 
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