Good update! Your fish are heathy and growing. Your local inverts add a nice variety. Nice work! Are you getting a feel for your ecosystem?
Any closer to the big tank?
Any closer to the big tank?
Oyster Reef Ecosystem Tank
- Thread starter Chasmodes
- Start date
Are bryozoans common in the cold water of Cheasapeak Bay? I am very interested in the grass shrimp you mention. Is it
https://www.livebrineshrimp.com/ShrimpJanitor.htm
I caught these in both fresh and full strength salt. I think that they may be an idle solution to my outside growout system for live food. They are harvested as far north as Long Island.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Subsea,
There are about 19 species of bryozoans in the bay, but I'm not sure how many venture up to where we collect with the SG at 1.014-1.016. This colony just appeared about 2 weeks after I set up the tank. The only things that I introduced into the tank were the fish, crabs, shrimp, some macro alga, a couple clumps of widgeon grass, and some empty oyster shells. Two colonies formed in the darker areas of the tank, near the corner on the side glass. They are still growing, albeit a lot slower now.
Most likely the shrimp that I have are the common grass shrimp (Palaemonetes pugio). https://www.chesapeakebay.net/S=0/fieldguide/critter/common_grass_shrimp
Last edited:
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Very quick update with the 20g long. One thing that I noticed last night, for the first time in months, a piece of Ulva was floating around the aquarium. Somewhere in the mass of red macro, in the middle, I found a little bit attached and growing. That made me smile, Ulva can survive in this tank. After a closer inspection, I found another piece tucked between the oysters. It isn't a lot, but, it's something, surviving, without me adding a bunch more.
The Ulva in the 20g high tank of death is surviving, a lot of it too, along with three mummichogs, an unknown number of mud crabs (between 1 and 5, because they almost never come out), and about 8 grass shrimp. Oh yeah, I moved the last small mummichog, a male, from the 20g long to the 20g high tank of death, because, he would have been killed anyway by the blennies. I caught them chasing and biting his tail and it was shredded. I suspect the smaller killi was killed the same way. He was eaten by the gobies and blennies, nothing left of him now. The killi that I moved started courting the two females right away. I misidentified one of the females last month as a male because it started courting behavior. Apparently, mummichogs get even more confused about their own sex as I do trying to ID them. They are all doing well, although, I suspect that they are carriers of the disease that killed my other fish (at least one of them was a carrier). I hope the 20g long is OK, so far so good, no signs of disease (scratching, etc.) by any of the fish.
The Ulva in the 20g high tank of death is surviving, a lot of it too, along with three mummichogs, an unknown number of mud crabs (between 1 and 5, because they almost never come out), and about 8 grass shrimp. Oh yeah, I moved the last small mummichog, a male, from the 20g long to the 20g high tank of death, because, he would have been killed anyway by the blennies. I caught them chasing and biting his tail and it was shredded. I suspect the smaller killi was killed the same way. He was eaten by the gobies and blennies, nothing left of him now. The killi that I moved started courting the two females right away. I misidentified one of the females last month as a male because it started courting behavior. Apparently, mummichogs get even more confused about their own sex as I do trying to ID them. They are all doing well, although, I suspect that they are carriers of the disease that killed my other fish (at least one of them was a carrier). I hope the 20g long is OK, so far so good, no signs of disease (scratching, etc.) by any of the fish.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Here are a few videos of the 20g long. Hope you all like them. So these videos show an hideous amount of cyanobacteria. Since I shot them, I've reduced the lights on to about 2-3 hours after I get home for work. Today is the third day. So, it is dark in the tanks for most of the day and night. The result is that most of the cyano has died off. I will continue until it's gone. Hopefully, at that point, the macros and other green algae can get a better foothold. Other than the cyanobacteria, the 20g long is doing well. Water parameters are perfect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI1HEINN6Go&t=8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKi-G9DkTkM&t=9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSvHcMHIMAs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI1HEINN6Go&t=8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKi-G9DkTkM&t=9s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSvHcMHIMAs
McPuff
New member
Chasmodes, just nuke that stuff with ChemiClean. It's just so fast and efficient. The blackout CAN work but ChemiClean WILL work and the cyano won't just come back in a couple weeks or month. Nothing else should be harmed in your tank. Just be sure not to overdose or it could have adverse effects on your bacterial population. Trust me. :0)
I think that Chemi Clean is more than a chemical treatment. It is biochemical. I think it is probiotic bacteria but I don't know. Because I don't test, I view cynobacteria as my test for excess phosphate.
Howerver, be aware of how cynobacteria gets its food to grow. Through "œnitrogen fixation" cynobacteria removes an inert dissolved nitrogen gas molecule from the water column and consumes a nitrate molecule. Randy Holmes Farley discribes an auto feed back look where cynobacteria convert inorganic calcium phosphate into organic phosphate and uptake into biomass.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Thanks Subsea. I suspect the oyster shells contribute to some of the problem and I'll have to deal with it always at some scale. My goal is to minimize it if I can't eradicate it. Another issue is that I'm currently using well water until I get my water changing station and RO/DI up and running. A major step to accomplish this is that I need to run a dedicated electrical line to my basement to run my equipment. Right now, I'm using extension cords on my minimal equipment. Basically, I need to convert my mess of a basement to a full bore fish room.
On another note, I've been toying with the idea of not making my stand into a closed cabinet style stand, simply to reduce workload and time. I might find a way to finish it as is, and keep it open underneath. Right now, it's made of 4x4's, 2x4's and plywood, so I need to explore some finishing options to make it look nice. I guess I could just paint it and then build a facade later if I can't get it to look nice. Why the change? A friend of mine sent me a pic of a cubish reef tank where the stand was open with a large sump underneath, and it looked great. The only difference for me would be that my sump is in another room, and underneath the tank would be an open space. This might wind up being a lot cheaper option for me too. If I go this route, it would free up money so I can buy a CO2 reactor.
First things first though, I need to have an electrician come do some work for me. I have to fund this regardless of what I do with my stand.
On another note, I've been toying with the idea of not making my stand into a closed cabinet style stand, simply to reduce workload and time. I might find a way to finish it as is, and keep it open underneath. Right now, it's made of 4x4's, 2x4's and plywood, so I need to explore some finishing options to make it look nice. I guess I could just paint it and then build a facade later if I can't get it to look nice. Why the change? A friend of mine sent me a pic of a cubish reef tank where the stand was open with a large sump underneath, and it looked great. The only difference for me would be that my sump is in another room, and underneath the tank would be an open space. This might wind up being a lot cheaper option for me too. If I go this route, it would free up money so I can buy a CO2 reactor.
First things first though, I need to have an electrician come do some work for me. I have to fund this regardless of what I do with my stand.
McPuff
New member
Chasmodes, I think the open frame stand will look nice. Maybe just consider putting a "partial skin" on it to hide all seams from the 2x4s. And if you can router the edges, even better!! It should look really nice.
As for the calcium reactor, you would not regret getting one. It's so much easier than dosing and seems to lead to faster and nicer coral growth. DIY is not very hard at all. This is what I did and it was my first ever Ca Reactor.
As for the calcium reactor, you would not regret getting one. It's so much easier than dosing and seems to lead to faster and nicer coral growth. DIY is not very hard at all. This is what I did and it was my first ever Ca Reactor.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Thanks McPuff.
Update:
The 20g long cyano problem has been reduced to a minimal amount by cutting back the lighted period to 3 hours per day, darkness the rest (not total blackout though). The tank looks a lot better. I went collecting on Saturday, and we caught everything except for pipefish and blennies. The water temperature on the Bay was 49 degrees, so those species probably already headed out to deep water. I added a couple colonies of tunicates to the tank along with another attempt at growing Ulva. I also tossed the old red macro algae for some healthier specimens. The old was holding it's own, but the new brought a few amphipods to the tank. I added a couple live razor clams to the 20g high along with some tunicates.
Regarding the tunicates, razor clams, and mussels (a.k.a. sea squirts or sea grapes), I'm hoping that they'll help with the detritus, but I may have to purchase some food for filter feeders to keep the alive long term. Again, this is an experiment. What works well will continue into practice and what doesn't will be a lessoned learned idea left in the past.
As far as the cyano, I still plan to treat for it chemically to get rid of it all together. I need the longer photo periods so the Ulva has a chance to grow. Patches of GHA are growing too, but I don't mind them, they kinda look cool.
Here's a full tank shot video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ZMIozu7EE&t=3s
A little closer in, focusing on the largest cultch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlzm60aYuCM&t=3s
Update:
The 20g long cyano problem has been reduced to a minimal amount by cutting back the lighted period to 3 hours per day, darkness the rest (not total blackout though). The tank looks a lot better. I went collecting on Saturday, and we caught everything except for pipefish and blennies. The water temperature on the Bay was 49 degrees, so those species probably already headed out to deep water. I added a couple colonies of tunicates to the tank along with another attempt at growing Ulva. I also tossed the old red macro algae for some healthier specimens. The old was holding it's own, but the new brought a few amphipods to the tank. I added a couple live razor clams to the 20g high along with some tunicates.
Regarding the tunicates, razor clams, and mussels (a.k.a. sea squirts or sea grapes), I'm hoping that they'll help with the detritus, but I may have to purchase some food for filter feeders to keep the alive long term. Again, this is an experiment. What works well will continue into practice and what doesn't will be a lessoned learned idea left in the past.
As far as the cyano, I still plan to treat for it chemically to get rid of it all together. I need the longer photo periods so the Ulva has a chance to grow. Patches of GHA are growing too, but I don't mind them, they kinda look cool.
Here's a full tank shot video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98ZMIozu7EE&t=3s
A little closer in, focusing on the largest cultch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlzm60aYuCM&t=3s
Chasmodes
Well-known member
This video is a close up of one of the tunicate colonies. That's all they do, siphon, blow out waste now and then, and contract when fish touch them. Still, I think they're cool and really enhance the aquascaping, giving more of the appearance of a living oyster reef. I will do whatever I can to keep them alive long term. I will try feeding them over the counter planktonic food for now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFR3BlovIdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFR3BlovIdg
Your videos are awesome! Your tanks are looking good too. Good luck with your new inverts. I think tunicates eat really small stuff, like phytoplankton and bacteria. Not sure about the others.
Experimenting with new organisms is smart and potentially adds diversity. If they are compatible with your system, great! If not, move on. I've tried a LOT of different things…
I see you've got some of the black grasilaria. I got that plant as a hitchhiker and it was a cool contrast with the other colors-at first. Two years later and it's trying to overrun my tank. It breaks very easily and spreads everywhere. Then, you end up with hundreds of tiny, black plants, making everything darker and dingier-not a good look. I now wish I had gotten it out before it spread. My two cents.
Experimenting with new organisms is smart and potentially adds diversity. If they are compatible with your system, great! If not, move on. I've tried a LOT of different things…
I see you've got some of the black grasilaria. I got that plant as a hitchhiker and it was a cool contrast with the other colors-at first. Two years later and it's trying to overrun my tank. It breaks very easily and spreads everywhere. Then, you end up with hundreds of tiny, black plants, making everything darker and dingier-not a good look. I now wish I had gotten it out before it spread. My two cents.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Thanks Michael. Right now, in my two tanks, it doesn't seem to spread much at all. It doesn't die, but it doesn't grow much. Maybe because my SG is only 1.014? I wonder if it would spread if I raised the SG to NSW? I don't mind the look so much as long as other macros or grasses can grow too. The Ulva grows well in the 20g high. When I tried it in the 20g long before, it died off. So, I tried something different this time, as I placed it directly under the light near the surface to see if it grows. I'm optimistic, because I saw some before this recent collecting trip in there and I thought that it all died off. It made a comeback! The only place that I never checked for it was at the surface, just behind the light. After I saw the piece floating in my tank, then I checked up there, and sure enough, there was a small patch growing in there.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that both macro species are prevalent, along with widgeon grass, in the areas where I've been collecting. So, I don't mind so much if they take hold in the tank. That way, it's a true biotope.
Now, that said, if I ever collect further South or East where the water is saltier, and I have to raise the SG to NSW, then I may have to revisit depending on the plant life in that area. One critter that I'd like to add would be a red beard sponge, once I get NSW. If I succeed at keeping the tunicates alive, then I know that I can keep the sponge alive.
How did you get rid of your black gracilaria?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that both macro species are prevalent, along with widgeon grass, in the areas where I've been collecting. So, I don't mind so much if they take hold in the tank. That way, it's a true biotope.
Now, that said, if I ever collect further South or East where the water is saltier, and I have to raise the SG to NSW, then I may have to revisit depending on the plant life in that area. One critter that I'd like to add would be a red beard sponge, once I get NSW. If I succeed at keeping the tunicates alive, then I know that I can keep the sponge alive.
How did you get rid of your black gracilaria?
I agree, if it grows locally, it belongs. Or it should at least be considered. It looks good in your tank! I just wanted to share my experience with it. It took a long time for it to get to this point.
I have not gotten rid of it, which is the problem. There are so many little fragments, it's impossible to eradicate.
I have not gotten rid of it, which is the problem. There are so many little fragments, it's impossible to eradicate.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
Here are some pictures of the 20g long for those looking for updates and don't have time for videos. I have a couple more videos that I'll post later today. I have to do some work on them first.
Full Tank Shot:
Two colonies of tunicates (sea squirts):
A couple blennies surrounding a patch of green hair algae:
A pair of grass shrimp:
A tunicate that found its way into an empty oyster shell. It was attached to the red macroalgae (gracilaria sp.?) in the foreground. I have no idea how it wound up in the oyster shell. My hunch is that either a fish or mud crab moved it there, probably the former.
A close up of the tunicate colony:
If you zoom in on the center of the above pic, on one of the tunicates is an encrusting bryozoan colony. I can't tell if it is alive or not. I don't see tentacles, so maybe not. I hope it's alive though, that would be really cool. If it isn't, it is still encouraging because these tunicates probably spent their entire lives at this location, so the chances of me finding more live bryozoans are pretty good. I'm optimistic.
Full Tank Shot:
Two colonies of tunicates (sea squirts):
A couple blennies surrounding a patch of green hair algae:
A pair of grass shrimp:
A tunicate that found its way into an empty oyster shell. It was attached to the red macroalgae (gracilaria sp.?) in the foreground. I have no idea how it wound up in the oyster shell. My hunch is that either a fish or mud crab moved it there, probably the former.
A close up of the tunicate colony:
If you zoom in on the center of the above pic, on one of the tunicates is an encrusting bryozoan colony. I can't tell if it is alive or not. I don't see tentacles, so maybe not. I hope it's alive though, that would be really cool. If it isn't, it is still encouraging because these tunicates probably spent their entire lives at this location, so the chances of me finding more live bryozoans are pretty good. I'm optimistic.
Chasmodes
Well-known member
I finished with the last two videos. Hope you like them. Sorry for them being shaky at times. I was using a tripod and sometimes when you re-position the camera, the tripod sticks even though I loosened everything. I need to find another way to do it.
In this video, you can see a live barnacle at the 50 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic32kpoT5Fo&t=19s
I kept the camera focused on the largest cultch in the area where the blennies are the most active. It is fun to watch them pop in and out of their hidey holes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWzTtVySdFs&t=178s
Thanks for watching and checking out my thread. I hope you like the videos. I watch them every chance that I get when I'm away from my tank!
In this video, you can see a live barnacle at the 50 second mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic32kpoT5Fo&t=19s
I kept the camera focused on the largest cultch in the area where the blennies are the most active. It is fun to watch them pop in and out of their hidey holes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWzTtVySdFs&t=178s
Thanks for watching and checking out my thread. I hope you like the videos. I watch them every chance that I get when I'm away from my tank!
Great pics and videos! The vids especially give us a glimpse of everyday life in your tanks. Fun stuff! You have something quite special there.
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