Pairing Regal Angels (Expert help needed)

[michealprater]

I have a red sea in my display settled in and eating well. I just picked up another yellow belly and it is in QT, and has started eating. I have good confidence it is going to be fine, however I am looking at 4 to 6 weeks before the new one reaches the tank. There is differences in coloration and size. Gill spine length seem similar. I will start with the pictures of each in the same container for a close up look and size comparison. I will not attempt to pair these fish in the display if it cannot be done, so I want to gather information and see what you all think. We have plenty of time to discuss it. Here are the pics. DT fish first, QT fish second.

DT

QT

 

[Manta]

I'm of the opinion without histology you cannot sex these fish until they are adult, and then only by their reproductive behaviour. For those that claim opercular spine length as a diagnostic I'd like to see the evidence.

 

[michealprater]

Ok. So your saying Im just rolling the dice?

 

[michealprater]

No help or advice?

 

[ccampbell57]

Looks to me without seeing any closer pictures that the fish in the DT is a male and the one in the QT is a female based on the body shape.

The picture on top shows a very distinct elongated vertical spine and a very sloped forhead. This is indicitave of many male angels. Another sign in many angels is the gill spine, although in the Pygos it is much less of a pronounced tell tale sign.

The second pic looks like a female...again going on the shape of the fish. The forhead is more vertical and the body shape is less stretched.

IMHO you never know till you try. I would keep the second in a QT for 6-8 weeks and get it tip top and eating everything. You need to get it ready for any battles it may encounter when introducing it to the other angel.

 

[Cantonesefish]

Copps has a trio of regals; it definitely can be done. I would also venture to guess you've probably lucked out with a m/f . When pairing them, if one is already in the DT, I would partition the DT off with egg crate so the new fish can get used to the new surroundings with the stress of the old regal, and they will be able to check each other out. You can get from their reactions an indication of their compatibilities.

 

[michealprater]

I have debated on trying to trap the Regal in the display and pair them in the QT, however I am not sure that it is worth the stress it will put on the established Regal. My tank is full of rock so I am not sure how to parition it off. I do not want to use a critter keeper because of the small size. Any other alternatives?

 

[michealprater]

Another question. What is the worst case scenario? Everytime I add another angel to my tank, it will experience aggression from the other angels, especially the blue face. But the more I add the less the aggression, as it is spread out more. If I added the other regal, after QT of course, what would happen if they did not pair up? Is it possible they could coexist in a 250 with tons of live rock and hiding spots if they did not pair up? For instance, my majestic always gets picked on by the blueface, but there is never really any damage. could it be a similar situation, or would the dominant regal beat the other regal to death?

 

[flameangel88]

Michael, tough to positive id from the first picture.

I always thought mine is a male but hopefully ccampbell can confirm.

 

[michealprater]

I am really hoping to get some more suggestions. I expected a lot more action considering I am attempting something you just don't see that often.

 

[Recty]

I am really hoping to get some more suggestions. I expected a lot more action considering I am attempting something you just don't see that often.

When you're doing something that most people dont have experience with, you shouldnt expect a lot of advice. The advice you do get you should be wary about, as most likely it's just people guessing

 

[michealprater]

I am assuming pairing these two fish would be similar to pairing any two angels. I have gotten some advise on other threads, and as long as the Regal in QT makes it, I am going to try to pair them, unless obviously if someone gives me some information that would prove that it is not a good idea. With the species not being very aggressive, I am thinking even if they did not pair up per-say, they may be able to coexist. Similar to how my blueface, majestic and first regal all coexist.

 

[szwab]

Far from expert advice but from personal experience with my 2 regals i can say there is no evidence of them pairing up. There is a definite pecking order the larger eats first and I do have to make sure the smaller of the 2 gets food. I will say though that I do coddle my regals, everything done in the tank revolves around them.
They have been in the same tank for over a year now. Only other angel is a flameback and the only other larger fish is a purple tang. The tang was added after the regals were established. All other fish are smaller dotty backs, gobies and a clown pair.
OK back to the regals so far aggression has been evident but not enough to affect the health of the smaller regal. The smaller is a gray belly and the larger is a yellow belly. I have no clue regarding the sex of the two. I have not noticed anything that stands out to make me believe they are the same or opposite sex.

I personally wouldn't mess with partitioning the tank IMO they are either going to get along or not. Some aggression is natural but in case it gets out of hand, you do need to be prepared to take proper actions if needed. For both fish I'd make sure they are fat healthy and eating very well and a varied diet, there will be added stress for both of them as well as the other fish. Anything that doesn't meet standards should delay their introduction. Not trying to make a comparison but along the same lines of delaying surgery because you have a fever, no need to add unwarranted risk to an already delicate situation.

If you are not doing so now I would start acclimate tank water into the QT tank so there is one less adjstment for the new fish.

A lot of planning, patience, and a lot of luck has gained me some success. I am more comfortable with my Regals but still feel that letting my guard down or getting too comfortable would still be detrimental to them.

Best of luck to you!

 

[michealprater]

Thanks for that advice! My QT has exact parameters of my DT. I have my water change system semi-automated and while a fish is in QT, I do a 5 gallon change daily (25% on a 20 long) I flip a switch and 5 gallons is pumped from the DT sump to the QT, and the overflow of the DT goes to the drain. Then I just fill the missing water in the sump with fresh salt RO/DI water. This way the fish is always in identical parameters.

Your experience is very helpful. I guess I scared people off with the work "expert" LOL!

 

[jhawkor]

I've always wondered if gill spine length is a real indicator of sex, or is it just a myth?

 

[michealprater]

I have heard mixed. I would say this though, no one has provided any proof either way.

 

[michealprater]

Well I started treatment on Regal #2. He had a small amount of ich and his fins were slightly tattered. He has been kind of jerking around. He is still eating, but not agressively. I usually like them to be eating better before I treat, but I do not want him to stress to much due to disease. I started a round of Prazipro and Cupramine. He still is eating so that is a good thing. I think he had a few flukes for sure because the jerking and twitching has stopped.

If Regal 2 makes it, which I am not to worried because he is eating and looks comfortable. I will be putting him in the display after full QT. Not a lot of concrete info out there, so I am going to give it a shot and hope for the best.

Regal 1 eats like a horse!

 

[Recty]

Regal 1 eats like a horse!

Really? How do you get the hay to stay in the water and not get pulled into the filter right away?

I hope #2 makes it for you, let us know how it goes!

 

[michealprater]

Very funny, LOL.

As long as #2 is eating, I feel pretty good about it. The shocking part is, #2 came from Petco.com. I am dead serious.

 

[ccampbell57]

Michael, tough to positive id from the first picture.

I always thought mine is a male but hopefully ccampbell can confirm.

Kevin - based on the body shape, length of gill spine and coloration I would say it is a male...