pappone and BLU Coral method

[MarineTeng]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9984887#post9984887 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by africangrey
Oh my god, Tom, this skimmer is gigantic and probably taller than an average person. It certainly puts ASM G3 in shame.

forget putting the ASM G3 to shame, you could put the G3 in it, several times over, that thing is huge

question
so if the pappone is actually feeding the bacteria as i read, what advantage is this over having fish that poop and do that sort of thing in conjunction with the reefplus stuff so that the corals open up more, maybe even throw some L glutamine (well ground) in the tank
i geuss one disadvantage of fish is it's as easy to control directly how much they poop, cause once you have them you'd have to sell them or something to make them stop pooping, whereas the food you can just stop

 

[Sparkss]

from what I understand, the sugar is what feeds the bacteria, because in a typicaly reef tank carbon is the limiting nutrient (something that the sugar breaks down to and provides). Very similar to dosing vodka into your tank. But very different from what the fish excrete.

That is how I understand it from my reading, I have yet to try this menthod myself though, but I still HTH

 

[RichConley]

Think of it like a recipe.

You need carbon, phosphate, and nitrate to make a bacterial cake. If you run out of carbon, you can't make any more cakes. You're just left with a pile of nitrogen and phosphate.


Adding sugar feeds your corals bacteria, and helps your tank export (thru skimming) more phosphate and nitrogen.

 

[MiddletonMark]

With all the bacteria, coral slime, etc in the tank already - do we have any definitive study/demonstration that C is indeed limited?

There's a wealth of compounds containing C, and while I've heard it claimed I've never seen anything definitive shown.

TIA

 

[chrisd1009]

Also, do you think these results can be achieved simply with additions of C and AA? Is the food really necessary? I don't even know if my coral eat it or not.
I have been having frequent pod and fish spawnings in my tank. Pretty much every night. Since I feed such small amounts of pappone, are they getting food elsewhere? I dose the C and AA about 4 to 5 times a week. Pappone, mostly once, sometimes twice.

 

[MarineTeng]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9991302#post9991302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley


Adding sugar feeds your corals bacteria, and helps your tank export (thru skimming) more phosphate and nitrogen.

can you expand on this last part a bit, i'm understanding it that the bacteria take in the phosphate and nitrogen and suger and then the corals eat it then it is skimmed, is that right?

 

[Freds]

Chris do you find any other side effects of the AA? I find if I get carried away with the AA dosing (I use the Ultralith system) I get brown algae or bubbles on my rocks (common with overdosing AA in zeolite systems). It is very interesting if your AA don't cause that.

As to your other comment, is the food part of the recipe necessary? If it's just the sugar why mix in seafood? Seafood available in Brooklyn (or Kansas) won't compare to the seafood available in Italy, or Seattle. Time of year will also play a role. The FDA has also placed some limits on how often we should consume certain foods due to mercury etc. I wonder if that is altering our results on this side of the pond. I'm also curious if the Italian fish have this contamination.

 

[chrisd1009]

What up, Fred.
Side effects with AA... If I use too much, green film algae grows on my front glass faster. Once you go against that with the carbon source, it seems to correct itself. I should also say that I did not add sugar to the pappone. I dose the C manually so I can make adjustments if too much or too little is being used. I know... modifications to a recipe may show discrepancies, but with no one showing pics of their great success, I didn't have much faith. FWIW, I always use a C source. I never just pour in AA or pappone without it.
Fred and I had also had the discussion about the fact that the shell fish in our area are questionable. Water here in NYC is quite a bit dirtier than what I've seen out west and in Italy. I went with smaller doses just because of that reason. Well, also because I run a DSB. I'm not sure how far they move out of our water ways to bring in fresh shell fish.

 

[MarineTeng]

Chris u mention dosing a C manually, what is that specifically? sugar or what?

 

[chrisd1009]

sugar

 

[Sparkss]

Not to derail this thread, but when you dose the sugar separately, what dosage, per gallon, do you use ? and what frequency ?

 

[chrisd1009]

I started with dipping my finger in the sugar bowl and dusting off what stuck to my finger into the shot glass I thaw the pappone in. I kept working up until I browned out. Then I backed off. I know... very scientific. It works out to be very little sugar. Other sources required more. I dose the carbon source every time I dose AA (4 to 5 times per week) Out of those 4 to 5 times, once or twice a week I add the pappone 1 hour later.
The reason I went with C was because as mentioned several times in the thread, there are many carbon sources. I've played with a few.
I see people talking about polyp extension at night, and I'll agree, but personally, I don't think the PE means anything. You may triggering a response, but who is to say any of your coral eat any of it. If you feed an SPS tank something like phytoplankton, the SPS really don't eat it. Do they eat pappone? Am I just looking for nitrate and phosphate to add? Can I use purer forms?
I'll show a pic of my PE after dosing pappone. Sorry for the poor quality, but this is the best I could do. It's my green robusta under actinics.

 

[Psionicdragon]

Two Questions:

1: Do you guys use filter socks?

2: Can you just use ground up glutamine with the pappone recipe without adding other amino acids? (Ie zeolith aas, seachem plus, etc)

 

[chrisd1009]

I use filter socks. If I forget to take them off for a feeding, I pull them off first thing in the morning.
I use glutamine and I like it as a replacement for sugar as a carbon source. Not a replacement for AA's.

 

[Psionicdragon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10000637#post10000637 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisd1009
I use filter socks. If I forget to take them off for a feeding, I pull them off first thing in the morning.
I use glutamine and I like it as a replacement for sugar as a carbon source. Not a replacement for AA's.

Oh really? I thought glutamine and arginine are used as Amino acids for the tank.

 

[chrisd1009]

Oh really? I thought glutamine and arginine are used as Amino acids for the tank.

That's not the way it was explained to me. But keep in mind that I am by no means an authority on this stuff. I'm not saying that my way is the right way. This is the way it was explained to me by someone significantly smarter. I'm simply posting what I have experienced.
I was wondering about arganine.

 

[bureau13]

I'm pretty sure L-glutamine is an amino acid, not a carbon source. I'm no expert by any stretch, but I'm reasonably sure about that.

jds

 

[Psionicdragon]

Oh, I m not questioning you or anything. I was just shocked by your explanation.

I remember some reefer on RC who was trying to experiment with them, but the thread closed down because of flamers.

What do you dose for AA, chris? I might have missed it if you already said it.

 

[chrisd1009]

Yeah, I'm going to need some help on this. I know from weight lifting, glutamine is an AA, but I was told to use it instead of sugar as a carbon.
Again, I'm not trying to act like an authority here. I'm asking a lot of questions too.

 

[chrisd1009]

Oh, I m not questioning you or anything. I was just shocked by your explanation.

No... it's all good. I'm just letting you know that I don't have all the answers. I'm trying to get a hold of the guys who helped me along on this so I can hopefully give a better explanation.
As for the AA's, I use the zeovit AA's. I'm not a Zeo user. I've only ever used the AA's and the Coral Vitalizer, which IMHO, is sugar water.