PBT Advise

cham

cham

New member
I went to my LFS today and they had an amazing PBT that came in the last couple days. He has great color and was looking good. I put him on reserve and I should pick him up next weekend. My LFS insists on QT them for a week in copper (good LFS).

I know they are difficult and I have done quite a bit of reading online. I already have a medium sized yellow tang, he is quite the wuss. A bunny fart sends him diving into the rocks, he mostly hides all day. If there is an issue the yellow gets the boot.

My question is QT.

I have a 28 gallon bow front that I can use. An aqua clear 70 with a sponge that has been soaking in my refugium for about 4 months now, but do I QT him?

From my readings I see how they are very easy to stress out and only a well established tank and stable params should be used. Thats what worries me. Not only will he be subjected to swings in the smaller tank that isnt even set up but he will have to be moved twice instead of once. I havent had any disease in the 6 months my system has been running and I do have a 25watt Aqua UV that I will turn on for at least the first 30 days he is in the tank reguardless of QT.

I will also be adding a hippo that is coming out of the same tank the pbt is in. Both fish are on the small side.
 
Always QT I learned the hard way and I always QT. The 1 time I didn't I ended up with Velvet :(. Go ahead and do a water change in the 110 and use the old water to fill the QT and get the sponge runnig in it. A few PVC fittings or pipes for hiding and you should be good to go. Your 1 sponge may not be enouph bio for both fish just keep a eye on your params. And the smaller quieter QT will give them bettter chance to adjust to tank life and start taking food without bullying from the big tank guys.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8207737#post8207737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angela Short
Always QT I learned the hard way and I always QT. The 1 time I didn't I ended up with Velvet :(. Go ahead and do a water change in the 110 and use the old water to fill the QT and get the sponge runnig in it. A few PVC fittings or pipes for hiding and you should be good to go. Your 1 sponge may not be enouph bio for both fish just keep a eye on your params. And the smaller quieter QT will give them bettter chance to adjust to tank life and start taking food without bullying from the big tank guys.
Click to expand...

I hear ya, I am worried about nuking the PBT with stress of swinging water params and multiple moves from LFS to QT to Display.

My LFS is working with him on feeding and will make sure he is eating before I can have him.
 
With a fish as sensitive as a PBT defin QT;) I have a PBT and i didn't QT him. I later had to due to an Ich outbreak. He recovered fine. Treated with Copper and Hypo. If ever to do it again i would QT in a fully cycled tank. Plan it out ahead of time. Spontaneous decisions can wreak havoc later.

Awesome fish now. Vibrant colors and very fat and healthy. Also only purchase them if it is going to be the last fish you add. They can be very agressive to new tankmates.
 
Wow! You have a great LFS. When I bought my first fish my LFS didnt even mention the word quarantine.
 
To through a spanner in the works, I would be concerned about prolonged exposure to copper........

I cannot find links (maybe some one else could provide same) but it is largely believed that the PBT (along with many other fish) have a bacterial culture in their stomachs that help break down protiens etc and generally allow the animal to extract nutrients from the food they eat. Withtout this bacteria, it is believed that PBT's slowly starve due to nutritional deficiency (inspite of feeding well, and appearing plump) and mysteriously "pop their cloggs" after about 6 months in the aquarium.

If you ask around and do searches, you will find quite a large number of people that have experienced this phenominon (i.e. the fish mysterioulsy dying). It is compinded by the fact that people are so paranoid about powder blue tangs and ich (and justifyably so) that QT the fish, nd put them through a prolonged exposure to copper, to make sure they get the lot..........

Personally, I am a believer in copper, in the right situations....... at the end of the day if you have a fish peppered with ich, and it looks like it is sure to die, then no ammount of hypo etc is going to save it - and copper is the last solution...... and it will literally either kill or cure them....... but preventative dosiing of copper, in my view, generally does more hard than good...... it is also linked to HLLE in zebrasoma tangs and angelfish...... again, for similar reasons....... bacteria in stomachs die, making it difficult for fish to extract nutrition.

In some cases, this bacteria obviously survives the ordeal, and in time is able to replensih itself - I would imagine (and this is just my opinion) in a large well established reef tank, there are ammounts of such bacteria in the water column which infiltrate the fishes system, and help replensih the colonies in the stomach...... but that is just my "guess". It is more likely that if the copper treatment is not overly severe or prolonged that a small amount of bacteria is not killed, and it just multiplies.

Hope this helps....... and I would strongly recommend doing a search and asking around. I could be mistaken, but I think Bob Fenner is of this school of thought..... if your searches fail, you could always search his site.

Regards,

Matt
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8207170#post8207170 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cham
I know they are difficult and I have done quite a bit of reading online. I already have a medium sized yellow tang, he is quite the wuss. A bunny fart sends him diving into the rocks, he mostly hides all day.
From my readings I see how they are very easy to stress out and only a well established tank and stable params should be used.
Click to expand...

A..."bunny fart?" :lmao:

PBTs can also be very aggressive. You can actually see their mood swings and predict when they're gonna lash out. They are sensitive to water parameters IMO. Also make sure you feed it the right way. Apparently I did not and found out the hard way that even a fat PBT has the potential to eat corals...or just rip off the polyps and spit them out. :mad:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8209383#post8209383 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattsilvester
To through a spanner in the works, I would be concerned about prolonged exposure to copper........

I cannot find links (maybe some one else could provide same) but it is largely believed that the PBT (along with many other fish) have a bacterial culture in their stomachs that help break down protiens etc and generally allow the animal to extract nutrients from the food they eat. Withtout this bacteria, it is believed that PBT's slowly starve due to nutritional deficiency (inspite of feeding well, and appearing plump) and mysteriously "pop their cloggs" after about 6 months in the aquarium.

If you ask around and do searches, you will find quite a large number of people that have experienced this phenominon (i.e. the fish mysterioulsy dying). It is compinded by the fact that people are so paranoid about powder blue tangs and ich (and justifyably so) that QT the fish, nd put them through a prolonged exposure to copper, to make sure they get the lot..........

Personally, I am a believer in copper, in the right situations....... at the end of the day if you have a fish peppered with ich, and it looks like it is sure to die, then no ammount of hypo etc is going to save it - and copper is the last solution...... and it will literally either kill or cure them....... but preventative dosiing of copper, in my view, generally does more hard than good...... it is also linked to HLLE in zebrasoma tangs and angelfish...... again, for similar reasons....... bacteria in stomachs die, making it difficult for fish to extract nutrition.

In some cases, this bacteria obviously survives the ordeal, and in time is able to replensih itself - I would imagine (and this is just my opinion) in a large well established reef tank, there are ammounts of such bacteria in the water column which infiltrate the fishes system, and help replensih the colonies in the stomach...... but that is just my "guess". It is more likely that if the copper treatment is not overly severe or prolonged that a small amount of bacteria is not killed, and it just multiplies.

Hope this helps....... and I would strongly recommend doing a search and asking around. I could be mistaken, but I think Bob Fenner is of this school of thought..... if your searches fail, you could always search his site.

Regards,

Matt
Click to expand...

Wow:eek2:

I do have a great LFS. When I said I wanted him she told me that I could pay for him but she wouldnt let me have him for at least a week. She will watch him and make sure he is eating and treat as needed to help with acclimation into tank life. She is also VERY anal about who she buys from and how they are collected. She is a conservationist first and hobbiest second, which is very cool.

The state of FL and another govt agency has interviewed her to be part of research on coral reefs and they have a licence to propogate or something like that. Not exactly sure all the details on the above, I just know she never has dead fish and has the cleanest tanks of any LFS.
 
Well if you have the confidence that you obviously do in your dealer, then I would suggest following their advice first and foremost - at the end of the day if I were in your shoes, I'd go with the person that I know rather than the guy on the net that could be any grade of lunatic :-) ...... just kidding..... I know myself to be of the higher order when t comes to lunatics LOL :-)

On a serious note, chancesare you are getting a good specimen, and chances are that is copper is being used, it is being done so at a very low background level, which hopefully should be ok.

but for your own reference - I would strongly urge you to research the above, as I have found it to be both logical and consistant with my experience.......... as they say, its free advise..... do as you will - but you should be able to dig something up here, or on bob fenners site (wetwebmedia).

On a pesimistic note - if your tang does sucumb in a few months, do let us know.........

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.......... either way - I hoping to get a pbt myself in about 3 months time
 
Will keep you guys updated. The copper is used in low levels, at this point I will most likely QT for 30 days before moving on to my main tank.

I am aslo considering unhooking my UV unit and putting it on my QT tank while I have them in there. I am most concerned about water params in the new tank. That and I need to pick up a refractometer quick.
 
Never dose copper with out a quality test kit. It is defin important to provide a QT tank with stable water parameters. I have kept several tangs and have never lost a one. "Knock on wood!" Once they are well aclimated they are very hardy fish IMO.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8210124#post8210124 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lakeside518
Never dose copper with out a quality test kit. It is defin important to provide a QT tank with stable water parameters. I have kept several tangs and have never lost a one. "Knock on wood!" Once they are well aclimated they are very hardy fish IMO.
Click to expand...

The LFS is using low levels of copper, Im not using any. I will most likely use hypo unless I should just put him in and watch him for a month. I also dont have a refractometer so I will have to go buy one. This $65 PBT and $55 hippo just turned into $200+ fish.:eek:


Just set up my QT tank, waiting on water to brew so I can do a change on my main tank and use that water for my QT.

I have an air stone, ac 70 with 4+ month old sponge, pinpoint PH meter and digital temp meter in QT tank (all taken from maintank). There will be two small/med sized fish in there, a PBT and hippo. Anything missing?
 
What size QT tank again? 28 gallon? Just watch them closely when they are aclimating. Two tangs in that small of a tank may tear each other up. I have never had two in a QT tank at the sametime. Hmmmmm

Also be sure to cover it. Tangs are fast and could accidently hit the floor. Sounds like your on task. Good choice to use display tank water help cycle things faster. Just adjust SG up and down slowly as to not shock them. I'm sure you have done your research and already know;) Hobby does get expensive:( LOL
 
Yeah 28 gallon bow, I am setting it up today. I wont pick my fish up till Sat so that gives it a week to run till I add fish. The sponge is dark brown and crawling with pods and mini brittle stars etc.

Should I add some cheato into the hang on filter to try and help keep the trates and nutrient in check? I will add some phosban and carbon in a media bag to the tank too.

Im using most of this info http://home2.pacific.net.ph/~sweetyummy42/quarantine.html
 
Interesting stuff on the tangs going caput after copper Matt..
I have a PBT in copper (coppermine) right now from velvet so I had no choice. It was actually in hypo just as a preventative for ick in the main and ended up with velvet in the end so hypo was not helping. Thank goodness I only lost 2 small ( cheap ;) ) fish from the velvet before the meds did there job. I will definetly watch for this senerio.

On another note do not do copper and hypo at the same time. Copper is more toxic at lower salinities...
 
QT set up, I will let it run for a week, maybe two weeks if I cant get the params right and then go get my foosh. Need to go to Lowes and get some PVC tomorrow. I put that small piece because I changed my filter sock with my water change and it had a TON of pods that I shook loose into the new tank.

What do you guys think about putting a ball of cheato in the AC 70?

100_0472.jpg
 
i had my 2nd PBT in coppermine as well but didnt dose in QT till ich was present. i did use less than what was recommended though... and ich did go away. it was with me for about 8 months till i got the itch to upgrade and he didnt make the move... my 3rd one now is one mean bugger! and really lives up to the description but its still my favourite fish.

as long as you dont have other fish that will harass your new PBT for too long it should be ok. a hippo will be the one hiding when it comes face to face with a PBT. also med PBTs do survive a bit better than the smaller ones...
 
Yes its amazing they made it through the misdiagnosis! I thought I had ICK and it turned out to be velvet. My poor PBT was so irritated and oxgen depleated he was living in a direct flow from a power head. They have all been in copper for about 10 days so all seems good.

On the QT, I would not put pods or cheato in the tank. You wantit to be as steril as posssiable with life other than the fish. If you do need to do hypo for ick or copper for other diseases the pods will die off and cause a ammonia spike. BB and plastic hiding spots is the way to go so you can vacume out uneaten food and no substraite/rock to absorbe possiable medications. You can get big cheap plastic decorations almost as cheap as big PVC connections. Or just get a 3-4" pipe and hack it up and even glue it together in a fake structure if you wanna get fancy! :)
 
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