persistent nitrate

[DetectiveTofu]

my tank specs are at the bottom of this post. As you can see, my API test kit is telling me I have NO3 in my system' around 10-15ppm. I've been told this is normal for FOWLR tank, however I want to do my best to bring the trates down to 0. I have a relatively light bio-load, and I feed daily (I don't overfeed). Every week for the past couple of months I have been doing 10 gallon water changes. I don't know what could possibly be producing the NO3. Any ideas?

 

[raddogz]

Your canister filter may be producing the nitrate problems.

Are you using ro/di for water changes?

 

[kaihonu82]

testing for phosphates?

 

[DetectiveTofu]

No, I'm not using RO/DI water. I know I should be, but I don't have the budget for a RO unit. I am also not testing for PO4 at the moment, but was considering getting a kit when i get home (I am in hawaii at the moment). Someone else also mentioned it may be my canister, but I do a good job of cleaning it out weekly. I do have filter floss, activated carbon, phosban, bio-balls, and bio-foam. Everytime I clean out my canister there isn't much garbage in there, but I go about removing what little there is anyways. Plus, I don't know how much crud my filter could be sucking up from three small fish and daily feedings.

 

[raddogz]

Anything that can hang onto detritus can cause phosphates and nitrates. Bio-balls are a big nitrate factory.

Nitrates can build in a matter of a few days.

I guess it also depends on defining "light feedings". Everyone is going to have their own idea as to what light is. Even if some of the food is being sucked up by the canister filter if can still build up nitrates and phosphates over a few days.

Are you having problems with algae?

 

[MorandiWine]

Biological Filtration = Nitrate. Maybe use only one of the filters you have. Or run them both, minus the bio-media. Your rock should be more than capable to handle your fish load.

tyler

 

[DetectiveTofu]

I see, thanks for the current feedback.
I am having still having some brown algae growth, and some green growth. I know this is a sign of PO4 and NO3; which brings me to three more [noob] questions.

1. Of the following list which do you suggest keeping/removing:
Filter Floss
Bio-balls
Activated Carbon
Phosban
Bio-Foam

Also the other reason i am using the canister is because I figure I have it, and I don't want it to go to waste.

2. Even if my live rock is capable of handling my bio-load, wouldn't I end up with nitrate anyways? The biological cycle from the bio-balls would be NH3/NH4 --> NO2 --> NO3 right? Wouldn't my live rock do the same thing?

3. I am going to replace my PO4 removal media in my canister, and thinking about adding NO3 removal media; which media would you guys (and gals) suggest for optimum performance?

thanks
RF

 

[klam114]

A good skimmer will help remove the waste before it goes through the denitrification process and a proper functioning refugium or denitrator unit will remove any nitrates that develop. Floss, foam and filter socks are great, but need to be changed or cleaned regularly or you have a nitrate factory. Carbon & phosban need to be changed regularly when they become exhausted. Here's a thread on a denitrator that was tested and evaluated locally, no daily feedings and practically maintenance free for about 1.5 - 2 years:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=906253

Bio balls work great for fish only tanks, but for reef, it's not needed as it is a nitrate factory.

 

[tuberider]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10078140#post10078140 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rhythmicfire
I see, thanks for the current feedback.
I am having still having some brown algae growth, and some green growth. I know this is a sign of PO4 and NO3; which brings me to three more [noob] questions.

1. Of the following list which do you suggest keeping/removing:
Filter Floss
Bio-balls
Activated Carbon
Phosban
Bio-Foam

Also the other reason i am using the canister is because I figure I have it, and I don't want it to go to waste.

2. Even if my live rock is capable of handling my bio-load, wouldn't I end up with nitrate anyways? The biological cycle from the bio-balls would be NH3/NH4 --> NO2 --> NO3 right? Wouldn't my live rock do the same thing?

3. I am going to replace my PO4 removal media in my canister, and thinking about adding NO3 removal media; which media would you guys (and gals) suggest for optimum performance?

thanks
RF

1. I'd get rid of the floss, bio balls, bio foam. Make sure your phosban is fresh.

2. As eileen said anything that traps detritus is a nitrate factory. You want something you can replace easier and quicker, so you're more inclined to change media more frequently.

3. Changing phosban is probably a good idea, I have not had good results with nitrate removal media.

Have you tested your tap water for nitrates? does it correlate with your tank readings? If so you may look into purchasing water from a reputable source (I use Lighthouse in HMB 0.1 TDS). If not you may need to step up your water changes.

 

[DetectiveTofu]

I see, thanks! I learn something from this forum everyday. I was considering introducing some low light tolerant softies, and want to knock down nitrates - I learn something everyday from this forum!

I will go with what you said Tuberider, and go ahead and remove the floss, bio-balls, and bio-foam. Will I experience an ammo spike due to the removal of the bacterial colonies on these medias? Also - if I remove my floss, what will happen to the detritus that it does catch? It will just stay in my tank?

I will also take your advice and replace my activated carbon and PO4 removal media. Figure I'll pass on the NO3 removal media if you haven't had any real success with it.

I also heard that the changing of activated carbon depends on the water conditions in the tank and the bio-load...is this fact or fiction?

thanks again

RF

 

[tuberider]

One of your issues is that you'll have to pop your canister open like crazy to run mech media. When I was in your shoes with just a canister, I loved those Hagen quickfilters. Do a water change, drop one of those suckers in, leave it in overnight. As far as carbon goes I only run it a few days and pull it. The phosban lasts a while longer, some people wait until they see an increase in algae before they change it, other people test for po4, and change it when they see an increase. I doubt you'll see and ammonia spike after media removal, if you concerned take one out at a time. HTH

 

[klam114]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10078626#post10078626 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tuberider
1. I'd get rid of the floss, bio balls, bio foam. Make sure your phosban is fresh.

2. As eileen said anything that traps detritus is a nitrate factory. You want something you can replace easier and quicker, so you're more inclined to change media more frequently.

3. Changing phosban is probably a good idea, I have not had good results with nitrate removal media.

Have you tested your tap water for nitrates? does it correlate with your tank readings? If so you may look into purchasing water from a reputable source (I use Lighthouse in HMB 0.1 TDS). If not you may need to step up your water changes.

1) & 2) I have to say I agree with the bio balls, get rid of them as it is really difficult to keep them clean, so they are a nitrate building factory. But floss and bio foam, I disagree. As long as you change the floss out twice a week and rinse out the biofoam weekly, the nitrates won't have a chance to buildup. It's like filter socks, as long as they are cleaned regularly, they help rid the system of detritus. But when you don't clean them regularly, they are a source of nitrate building as raddogz mentioned. Anything that can collect detritus is a potential nitrate builder.

3) Carbon needs to be changed monthly and Phosban every other month, unless they exhaust quicker. But a good skimmer is really important as it removes organic waste before it even start the denitrification process.

tuberider, you haven't used a H&S sulfur/nitrate reactor. From my observation of the testing and evaluation done at KM Associates Int'l, they are impressive and the very first unit they setup has an ongoing ZERO nitrate level on a 75g seahorse tank, which was once 85ppm. The sulfur pellet grade that H&S units use, do not clog like other brands. When MW had trouble with their units clogging, I read that they purchased their sulfur media from H&S/Fins Reef as a replacement of their clogging media. KMA Int'l confirmed that is true. So, just because you haven't had luck with them, might mean you haven't use one that actually works, instead of claiming that it works.

 

[raddogz]

All good points everyone!

However...seeing that this is 35g fowlr tank and I will go out on a limb and assume (yes yes I know the old saying) that this tank is still relatively low budget. Not everyone can go out and spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on equipment. If you can, then pat yourself on the back for a job well done and you have the budget to do so.

RF - Tuberider makes some very good recommendations and are all doable. Klam114 has suggested protein skimmer as a way of exporting nutrients via mechanical means. If you cannot afford a decent hob skimmer (there are bad ones, decent ones, and really expensive ones) then consistant and more frequent water changes
will be in order.

Good luck and let us know how us we can help.

Gotta luv the forum

 

[DetectiveTofu]

raddogz you are correct - I don't have an endless amount of money to spend on my tank, although is would be nice =P I am trying to be smart about the $$$ as well as maximizing what I have. =)

I definitely agree - a lot of things I am learning! I've decided to keep the the following in my canister and cleaning is weekly:
Filter Floss
Activated Carbon
PO4 Removal Media
Bio-Foam

I will remove the Bio-Balls, b/c I for sure agree that it is hard to keep these free of every piece of detritus without taking each one and rinsing is individually.

I have a protein skimmer; a CPR BAK-BAK, with the nasty Bio Media removed =) The BAK-PAK is not the best, I know, but it is what i could swing - and thankfully it is yanking crud out of the water; maybe not as much as something like an AquaRemoraC, but regardless.

Any other input?

 

[klam114]

Checkout out the equipment forum to see if there are any mods to improve your bak pak. I think I read something earlier this year about modding the BP. Weekly water changes, keep them up.