pH help!!!

[Bob60070]

Please help I am loosing what hair I have left.
I will start from the beginning. I have a 60 cube with a 20 tall sump. I have 60-70 lbs of rock that most was dry (dead) for at least a month. About 5 lbs was live from Gateway. I have a sand (live sand) bed of about 3 inches. I cycled the tank with ammonia chloride that I got from Sea scape. The cycle went well ammonia was off the charts then big nitrites and nitrates then down to nothing. I let it go a week and then wanted to add fish. I tested pH and found it low, about 7.4 so I started dosing Kalk. I got an Apex and calibrated with 10.0 and 7.0 and started having the apex control pH using a gal container with a aqua lifter and the break out box. A lot of tweaking but I think got it right, or at least a reasonable process. I played with amount of Kalk I put in the gallon and when in I goes on and off. I have it go on at 8.25 and off a 8.26 which sounds crazy but by the time the Kalk circulated through the system it would actually climb to 8.45 or so. It was getting to where I was adding more and more Kalk so I got some chaeto and lights by the sump. The lights go on at night when tank lights are off. I was hoping the Chaeto would increase the oxygen in the tank.
Over time it got more challenging I am currently needing 2 gallons of Kalk per day. Evaporation can not keep up with the Kalk needs so I am now adding salt mix with the Kalk and scooping water out to keep water level. I am checking the specific gravity to keep the salt right.
After all of this the only other thing I am thinking might be a problem is my Rodi system. What I have is a 3 phase RO that was designed for drinking water. I have a box full of filters and membranes so I thought if I add a deionizer then I should be good to go. I do not have a TDS tester so I don't know how well the system works. I dropped my pH prob in my Rodi right out of my storage tank and the pH is around 10. This seems high but also makes no sense since my tank keeps going low.
I did order a 5 stage Rodi with TDS meter today and I intend to make all new water and do big water changes for a while.
Anyone have any thoughts on this. It's driving me F-ing crazy.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Tigé21v]

I'll take a shot. (If any of my info is off, someone feel free to step in and correct me.. I'm not looking to make things worse.)
You cannot use seawater to mix up the kalk. Has to be freshwater.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/
And if you keep adding kalk, but your system is not utilizing it, you're gonna end up with elevated alkalinity and calcium levels. If they get too high, and your magnesium isn't at the proper ratio for the elevated levels, all the calcium will precipitate out of the water- it'll look like it's snowing in your tank (abiotic precipitation). Not good. And also, you're going to get a build up of the kalk on anything producing heat- from your heater to your pump impellers. It will precipitate out on anything warmer than the surrounding water. Not good again.
I think maybe you should take a step back and let the tank do its thing. Usually, IIRC, when you use ammonia to cycle, once levels settle down, you are suppose to add ammonia at least one more time, maybe more. You want to be sure the biological bed is matured enough to handle ammonia produced. My guess is you are still building your biological bed. The ph may not settle (rise) until it has reached its equilibrium.
Take a bucket of your tank water and set outside with an airstone in it. Let it bubble e away for a few hours, and measure the ph. If it rises, it means there's a lot of CO2 in your tank water. Try opening a window near the tank for a day and see if the ph goes up. But, I think you may need to be careful.. I think if your water has high alk/calcium, if the ph goes up too much, it could cause the snow in your tank...

 

[Bob60070]

First off thank you for your input. Not being sarcastic. Is there a danger of letting pH get too low? Also I did not make the Kalk is salt water until I saw the SG dropping from adding too much not saltwater. I will shut the Kalk down. What would be too low for pH? I have fish and a good amount of frags in there now

 

[Tigé21v]

Definitely not taken as being sarcastic. Just as I hope I'm not coming across as a know-it-all.
If ph gets too low, your sand and rocks would start to dissolve. Your tank would turn into a giant calcium reactor.
You are on the low side. I don't know how close you are to the danger zone, TBH.
If in fact the tank is still cycling, the fish are probably contributing to the cycle taking longer.
You can continue to add the kalk to your top off to try to raise the ph. Try placing a fan or two blowing across your tank and sump to increase evaporation. I ran the air line for my skimmer to the outside of the house. It helped to raise my ph by .2 or so.
Just remember that once your ph does start to rise, you run the risk of abiotic precipitation if you alk/cal are too high.
Have you tested your alk/cal and mag levels? What's the ph of your RO/DI water?
Try the bucket test and see how much it affects your ph.
A good read here
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/

 

[smoothdog]

Don't chase Ph. Get your Calc, Alk and Mag to recommended levels and keep them stable with 2 part dosing or a calcium Rx. Ph will normalize but still fluctuate a little day to night. My tank goes as low as 7.7 with no issues.

 

[Mr D smack]

Don't chase Ph. Get your Calc, Alk and Mag to recommended levels and keep them stable with 2 part dosing or a calcium Rx. Ph will normalize but still fluctuate a little day to night. My tank goes as low as 7.7 with no issues.

This and use good quality test kits

 

[chucklez]

Im having similiar issues right now of my tank PH getting uncomfortably low. By uncomfortable I mean 7.65 or so. When lights are on it tops off around 7.9 currently. I attribute alot of it due to closing the windows in the house as we have a newborn born with some respiratory issues. Dont want all that tree pollen and such in the house.

To combat the issue I have put 2 air stones in my system to try to raise oxygen level, moved the air intake for my skimmer out of my tank room to try to bring in some fresh(er) air, and only run my CA reactor when the tank lights themselves are on. The reactor being brought back online coincided with the windows being closed. All points to me of too much CO2. Hence the bubblers and the outside air source. Since doing that my PH levels have come up a bit and the swings from lights on/off have not been as dramatic.

 

[Pife]

Im having similiar issues right now of my tank PH getting uncomfortably low. By uncomfortable I mean 7.65 or so. When lights are on it tops off around 7.9 currently. I attribute alot of it due to closing the windows in the house as we have a newborn born with some respiratory issues. Dont want all that tree pollen and such in the house.

To combat the issue I have put 2 air stones in my system to try to raise oxygen level, moved the air intake for my skimmer out of my tank room to try to bring in some fresh(er) air, and only run my CA reactor when the tank lights themselves are on. The reactor being brought back online coincided with the windows being closed. All points to me of too much CO2. Hence the bubblers and the outside air source. Since doing that my PH levels have come up a bit and the swings from lights on/off have not been as dramatic.

Your system is in the basement? Co2 is heavier than air and typically settles in the basement. Run your skimmer intake outside. Some have even put in an air exchanger in the basement with great results

 

[chucklez]

Your system is in the basement? Co2 is heavier than air and typically settles in the basement. Run your skimmer intake outside. Some have even put in an air exchanger in the basement with great results

Presently i dont have it outside, but I do have it in the room with the walkout door. But it does beg an interesting question, how far is too far when running an airline for fresh air?

 

[Bob60070]

Hey guys thanks for all of the info.
Here is what I am doing now:
Dosing 2 part at 3 oz per day
I do have a fan blowing on the sump
I don't currently have a skimmer but will soon
My sump is in the stand so not in the basement
What I will start doing is opening the stand door allowing better air flow
I opened the windows near but can only do that when home for security reasons
I will test for cal alk and mag tonight
I will pick up an air pump and stones and run them

My Rodi water with no salt mix has s pH of 10.
I will mix up some salt water and test the pH on that pre going into the tank.
I really appreciate everyone's help

 

[Bob60070]

Additionall I do not think anyone is being a know it all. I value everyone knowledge and experience.

 

[Pife]

Don't bother work the air stones. IMHO