ph too high

[krestonc]

my ph is around 8.8. i have done a water change and that's had no affect. i noticed today that some of my zoanthids and a coco worm just don't seem right. also, i think i might have lost a cleaner shrimp today, though, it might have molted and is hiding.
all other parameters are normal, temp included. i tested the water i use and it is either 7.4 or too low to register.
i started my reef tank a few months ago, so i don't have a lot of experience with it. i've had fish only tanks over the years, but never had any problems with ph.
what do i do to bring the ph down?

 

[dots]

Try reading these first, and check back to clarify anything you don't understand.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

One thing I noticed while reading them myself again:

"The most benign way to reduce high pH is to aerate the water more. Whether the aquarium looks well-aerated or not, if the pH is above 8.5 and the alkalinity is not above 4 meq/L, then the aquarium is not fully equilibrated with carbon dioxide in the air. Equilibrating carbon dioxide can be much more difficult than equilibrating oxygen. Air contains very little carbon dioxide (about 350 ppm) relative to oxygen (210,000 ppm). Consequently, a lot more air needs to be driven through the water to introduce the same amount of carbon dioxide as oxygen. Perfect aeration will solve nearly any high pH problem, and will rarely cause any problem of its own."

 

[krestonc]

i just finished reading the article, but hadn't adjusted my question. thanks for answering, though.

 

[Hop]

What are you adding that caused it to go that high?

 

[LiveRockRob]

Good reading there. I'll definitely bookmark these links on my favorites.

Krestonc,
I'm new to the reef world as well, so I won't even attempt to guide you in any direction. One thing that I have learned from this forum is that the best way to tackle an issue is to "understand why the problem occured" instead of trying to take stabs at it various ways. You may create more damage than good that way.

Evaluate maybe a week or two prior to this occuring to see if you can pinpoint what triggered it.

Have you changed anything lately?

Please keep us posted as to your progress.


Robert

 

[Hop]

Pretty much where I was heading. Thanks Robert. either something was added and simply discontinuing the use will allow it to come down on its own, or the test kit is faulty

There are many things connected to various parameters we try to attain and unknowingly adding one thing, often affects the other and we find ourselves trying to fix a problem we started

 

[krestonc]

i've considered the test kit being faulty, so tomorrow i'm gonna have my water tested at the local fish store.
otherwise, i have only added livestock in the last month.
about 3 weeks ago i added some mushrooms, a cocoworm, and some polyps. on sunday, i added two false perculas and a blue tang (sm).
i did use some buffer when i set up the tank, but that's been a while now.
there's nothing else that i can think of, though i don't discount the possibility that i am just missing something

 

[krestonc]

and i've started aerating, but i can't get my wife to let me leave the windows open, so i think i'd like to try the seltzer thing

 

[dots]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15049542#post15049542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LiveRockRob
Good reading there. I'll definitely bookmark these links on my favorites.

Do yourself one better and bookmark the Chemistry Article page....better yet.....read them.....

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102605

 

[Hop]

The pH will only hold so long in a container so the testing at the LFS is probably only a possibility of what you pH is. Also test kits are pretty unreliable as it is. The best way to test pH is with a properly calibrated monitor

If you are not adding anything, I doubt the pH is that high and you have nothing to worry about.

 

[jdieck]

I also doubt the PH is that high without addition of supplements. As you mention verify the reading. There is nothing worst than trying to fix something that is not broken.

 

[krestonc]

if that's the case, what would cause the coco worm to look sort of curled under or shriveled slightly. and what would cause the zoanthids to stay closed. (actuallly, it's not all the zoanthids. just the 'fire and ice' i added a few weeks ago)these to things just happened today, and so far, i don't see anything out of the ordinary but the ph.
and i did read the article on high ph. haven't gotten to the other one yet.

 

[krestonc]

note:
i spend a lot of time watching my critters. something is wrong. i just don't know what and i don't want to lose any. know what i mean.

 

[Hop]

Zoos are a tough measure. I have some that look cruddy for weeks and then turn around and are the stars of the tank for months. Sometimes the worry something is wrong is all we need to presume something is wrong. My rule of thumb is anytime things look not quite right, I run some carbon and get ready for or do a water change.

 

[LiveRockRob]

Would lighting have an impact on them?

How about the rate that they are stocked?

Just looking at possibilities.

Robert

 

[krestonc]

if the 'stock rate' is the issue, wouldn't i get an ammonia spike...?
i have 96w pc's and the zo's are high enough to where lighting shouldn't be an issue.
i'm gonna do a water change tomorrow and get both samples tested. myabe i'll wake up and everything will be fine. lol

 

[PRDubois]

Since no one wants to give you a direct answer:

1- Test your water at your LFS

2- Quick dip test strips are good to have on hand to verify if you get a reading that is out of wack

3- To drop PH in SW use Baking Soda

4- To raise PH in SW use "Baked Baking soda"
---------you get "Baked Baking soda" by putting Baking soda in foil in the oven on 350 for 1 hour -----------

 

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15049901#post15049901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PRDubois
Since no one wants to give you a direct answer:

1- Test your water at your LFS

2- Quick dip test strips are good to have on hand to verify if you get a reading that is out of wack

3- To drop PH in SW use Baking Soda

4- To raise PH in SW use "Baked Baking soda"
---------you get "Baked Baking soda" by putting Baking soda in foil in the oven on 350 for 1 hour -----------

Actually I think people went out of their way to give quality advice and lead someone to a logical decision. There comes a certain level of responsibility to posting in these forums that it seems many have forgotten. You may have brought up same valid points and I feel that you also brought up issues in a newbe forum that needs much, much more info than what you posted. Advising anyone to dump BS and BBS into a tank without understanding the bigger picture is irresponsible and taking the time to seek further information is a must! Will BS and BBS affect pH? Yup... but it also changes alk levels and then tomorrow someone will say they saw the post to adjust pH (when maybe they didn't need to change anything) and now their tank is milky white due to precipitation and they lost some live stock.

My suggestion is that when you post such replies, you point to links so that people newer to the hobby can see the affects, or do as a few others did and find more information to make a better educated suggestion

 

[PRDubois]

Hop,
The links where already pointed out but the actual answer was not given. That is why I said first to retest and make sure.

But if he does test and his PH is at 8.8 these articles you gave are VERY confusing if you are not a chemist. I would hope that now he knows what he is looking for. he can find the proper section in one of Randys articles that will tell him how much BS to add.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15050026#post15050026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PRDubois
Hop,
The links where already pointed out but the actual answer was not given. That is why I said first to retest and make sure.

But if he does test and his PH is at 8.8 these articles you gave are VERY confusing if you are not a chemist. I would hope that now he knows what he is looking for. he can find the proper section in one of Randys articles that will tell him how much BS to add.

I think the point is that adding a buffer (like baking soda) to lower PH is a very poor alternative. Besides the effect is only temporarily unless added on a continued basis, the increase in alkalinity is significant in proportion to the achieved drop in PH.
Approximately for every 0.04 to 0.05 drop in PH units, the alkalinity will increase by about 1.5 dKh (0.5 to 0.6 meq/lt)

At this point without knowing if the reading is accurate the only safe action will be to increase aeration, if the PH is indeed high that will introduce enough CO2 from the air to drop PH but if the PH is normal instead aeration will not have much of an effect.

For a more accurate and detailed help some additional information can be helpful:
a) How is PH being measured?
b) What is the source of the water for water changes (RO/DI, Well, Tap etc.)
c) What supplements or additives are being used
d) What is the level of calcium, magnesium and specially alkalinity?
e) What is the salinity level?
f) What is the salt brand being used?
g) Does the PH changes if a sample of water (A cup or so) is aerated for 6 hours?

Knowing this data could help narrow down the potential cause but step number one is to confirm the test for PH.

By the way, all other methods to lower PH (Seltzer water, vinegar addition) are just temporary emergency solutions for when PH is driven temporarily higher by an overdose of Kalk to counteract its effects.