PhosAR experience
- Thread starter Fmellish
- Start date
OK, check now
http://fmellish.shackspace.com/aquarium/
I twisted the spouts vertical so they are almost above the water line at their highest. Looks neat, but I've diminished my flow a little for my bottom dwelling corals. Any ramifications to that?
Oh Oh! And my halide shimmer is back. I missed you halide shimmer.
Josh
http://fmellish.shackspace.com/aquarium/
I twisted the spouts vertical so they are almost above the water line at their highest. Looks neat, but I've diminished my flow a little for my bottom dwelling corals. Any ramifications to that?
Oh Oh! And my halide shimmer is back. I missed you halide shimmer.
Josh
I've tried everything for the cyano. I siphon it out daily. THis tank is like having a new baby I have to work on it every night.
I just want ONE night where I can come home from work and not have to work on it.
I suppose I could go the chemical route and use Chemiclean. But I'm afraid of chemicals.
Josh
I just want ONE night where I can come home from work and not have to work on it.
I suppose I could go the chemical route and use Chemiclean. But I'm afraid of chemicals.
Josh
laverda
Well-known member
Josh I am having a cyno outbreak too, so I know it is a pain.
One thing no one mentioned is what is your water tempature. I just had the same thing happen to the Xenia and a gorgonia in one of my nano tanks. I know for a fact the Xenia does not like high temps and I suspect this was the problem with my gorgonia. It was open and looking good two day ago now it is gone. :-(
You can remove the film real easy either of two methods. #1 use plane unscented paper towel and lay it flat on the surface and then draw it up, repeat with new towel as needed. #2 Use a largemouth container to draw the surface water off buy holding it just below the water surface and skim the water and disguard.
<B>Get your arm pits out of the tank!!!!!</B> Get some rigid clear acrylic tubing to fit your syphon hose. Cut it to reach the bottom of your tank and attach your syphon hose to it now you can keep you hands and your pits out. If need be you can heat the tubing and bend it gently to get at hard to access places. Get some long tongs or something for picking up stuff in your tank.
My guess is the PhosAR had nothing to do with the problems, but was merely a coincidence that you used it at the same time.
Good luck!
One thing no one mentioned is what is your water tempature. I just had the same thing happen to the Xenia and a gorgonia in one of my nano tanks. I know for a fact the Xenia does not like high temps and I suspect this was the problem with my gorgonia. It was open and looking good two day ago now it is gone. :-(
You can remove the film real easy either of two methods. #1 use plane unscented paper towel and lay it flat on the surface and then draw it up, repeat with new towel as needed. #2 Use a largemouth container to draw the surface water off buy holding it just below the water surface and skim the water and disguard.
<B>Get your arm pits out of the tank!!!!!</B> Get some rigid clear acrylic tubing to fit your syphon hose. Cut it to reach the bottom of your tank and attach your syphon hose to it now you can keep you hands and your pits out. If need be you can heat the tubing and bend it gently to get at hard to access places. Get some long tongs or something for picking up stuff in your tank.
My guess is the PhosAR had nothing to do with the problems, but was merely a coincidence that you used it at the same time.
Good luck!
THanks Steve. It may have just been a coincidence. My temps have been rock solid at 78-79F for the last 2 weeks. My chiller has been in use since the days started getting hotter.
I do need to get some clear rigid tubing.
I'm hoping that now I have more surface movement that the slime will dissipate. My lights are off now. THanks for the tip with the paper towel. I will try that tomorrow if the film persists.
Thanks
Josh
I do need to get some clear rigid tubing.
I'm hoping that now I have more surface movement that the slime will dissipate. My lights are off now. THanks for the tip with the paper towel. I will try that tomorrow if the film persists.
Thanks
Josh
MonkeeFish
New member
My clown fish lives in my xenia and nothing happens to them...
gcarroll
Active member
What is your alkalinity? GFO phosphate removers suppress alkalinity. This could be an issue of concern. Sudden reduction of phosphates is not the problem. If it was, we would not be able to share frags. Also putting the stuff in your filter sock was a bad idea. It should be in a area that has flow going through the media but not enough force to have pulverize. I sometimes placed the media bag near the intake of the return pump which draws water through the media.
Here is a link to tests performed on similar phosphate reducing products. In this it discusses how the products can reduce alkalinity and in turn affect ph.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/review.htm
Here is a link to tests performed on similar phosphate reducing products. In this it discusses how the products can reduce alkalinity and in turn affect ph.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/review.htm
Thanks greg my Hardness is 7 dKH, I forget the meq/L equivalent, but you could look it up. It's a little low, but it's always been a little low.
If I decide to use any phosphate removing media again I will make sure to rinse it longer and not run it in my filter sock where it gets pounded. When I took the stuff out it was like mashed potatoes. I never should have used the PhosAr, I had no proof that I had phosphates. I've always used RO/DI water and I've always been careful. I just added it in desperation and here I am a week later still with cyano and dead corals and a funk on my water surface.
I just can't get over losing my Xenia and my gorgonias almost over night. It just doesn't make sense. And my Xenia exhibited strange lesions on their stocks like someone burned them with a cigarette.
Maybe I'll never know what happened.
I have 3 children under 5 years old, maybe one of them dropped a cheeto or something in my sump
BTW continuing the surface film dilemma, even though I have crazy surface flow now with a fountain of water spraying my top acrylic lip, I still have the film. I think I'm going to try Laverdas recommendation of using a paper towel to soak it up. I'll also change my filter sock tonight, it's looking nasty.
Josh
If I decide to use any phosphate removing media again I will make sure to rinse it longer and not run it in my filter sock where it gets pounded. When I took the stuff out it was like mashed potatoes. I never should have used the PhosAr, I had no proof that I had phosphates. I've always used RO/DI water and I've always been careful. I just added it in desperation and here I am a week later still with cyano and dead corals and a funk on my water surface.
I just can't get over losing my Xenia and my gorgonias almost over night. It just doesn't make sense. And my Xenia exhibited strange lesions on their stocks like someone burned them with a cigarette.
Maybe I'll never know what happened.
I have 3 children under 5 years old, maybe one of them dropped a cheeto or something in my sump
BTW continuing the surface film dilemma, even though I have crazy surface flow now with a fountain of water spraying my top acrylic lip, I still have the film. I think I'm going to try Laverdas recommendation of using a paper towel to soak it up. I'll also change my filter sock tonight, it's looking nasty.
Josh
jpatrician
Premium Member
I had been looking into PhosAR and had sent an email to Champion lighting regarding the product after hearing they were supposed to carry it. This is the response I go from them:
_______
We will not be carrying this product. After testing, we have found it to be
soft and break down in water which can add a lot of iron to the water.
Magnavore has done extensive research on various Granular Ferric Hydroxide
Oxide (GFH) products from Germany. Below you will find an excerpt from their
Phoslock spec sheet. We believe the Phosar to be Bayoxide E33.
Comparison of different phosphate removing products marketed for use in
aquarium applications is challenging for one main reason: all phosphate
removing medias are designed for use in "open-loop" applications such as
cleanup of drinking and waste waters, where contaminated water passes
through the media bed only once. Use of such medias in aquariums is greatly
complicated as aquariums are "closed-loop" systems, where water passes
through the media repeatedly. PhosLock is the first and the only phosphate
removing media that utilizes GFH specifically modified for use in
"closed-loop" applications. Let us review some data on testing media
performance in a real aquarium application.
We will not be comparing white colored phosphate removers such as Phosphate
Sponge and Phos Guard with medias based on GFH, as white colored or aluminum
oxide based medias release phosphate back into aquarium upon reaching their
sorption capacity, thus are not perfectly suitable for use in aquariums.
Comparing to products such as PhosBan and Rowaphos, PU¯RA PhosLock is 10%
more effective than PhosBan and 3.0% more effective than Rowaphos in
removing phosphate from fresh and saltwater. It seems that all three brands
perform very similarly in removing phosphate, but this is not the entire
picture.
Large quantities of free iron in aquariums are known to cause permanent
damage to fish gills. PhosLock is much harder and far less prone to
disintegration in high flows compared to the other brands. Over 72 hrs of
use one gram of PhosLock releases less than 0.02 mg of iron comparing to 3.7
mg per gram of Rowaphos and 98.8 mg per gram of PhosBan. That is 185 times
less than Rowaphos and 4940 times less than PhosBan.
Recently appearing on the pet markets granulated and palletized medias based
on Bayoxide E33 product are about 14% less effective in removing phosphate
and release 270 mg of iron per gram of media â€"œ that is staggering 13500
times more than PhosLock.
--
Champion Lighting & Supply
championlighting.com
1-800-673-7822
_______
We will not be carrying this product. After testing, we have found it to be
soft and break down in water which can add a lot of iron to the water.
Magnavore has done extensive research on various Granular Ferric Hydroxide
Oxide (GFH) products from Germany. Below you will find an excerpt from their
Phoslock spec sheet. We believe the Phosar to be Bayoxide E33.
Comparison of different phosphate removing products marketed for use in
aquarium applications is challenging for one main reason: all phosphate
removing medias are designed for use in "open-loop" applications such as
cleanup of drinking and waste waters, where contaminated water passes
through the media bed only once. Use of such medias in aquariums is greatly
complicated as aquariums are "closed-loop" systems, where water passes
through the media repeatedly. PhosLock is the first and the only phosphate
removing media that utilizes GFH specifically modified for use in
"closed-loop" applications. Let us review some data on testing media
performance in a real aquarium application.
We will not be comparing white colored phosphate removers such as Phosphate
Sponge and Phos Guard with medias based on GFH, as white colored or aluminum
oxide based medias release phosphate back into aquarium upon reaching their
sorption capacity, thus are not perfectly suitable for use in aquariums.
Comparing to products such as PhosBan and Rowaphos, PU¯RA PhosLock is 10%
more effective than PhosBan and 3.0% more effective than Rowaphos in
removing phosphate from fresh and saltwater. It seems that all three brands
perform very similarly in removing phosphate, but this is not the entire
picture.
Large quantities of free iron in aquariums are known to cause permanent
damage to fish gills. PhosLock is much harder and far less prone to
disintegration in high flows compared to the other brands. Over 72 hrs of
use one gram of PhosLock releases less than 0.02 mg of iron comparing to 3.7
mg per gram of Rowaphos and 98.8 mg per gram of PhosBan. That is 185 times
less than Rowaphos and 4940 times less than PhosBan.
Recently appearing on the pet markets granulated and palletized medias based
on Bayoxide E33 product are about 14% less effective in removing phosphate
and release 270 mg of iron per gram of media â€"œ that is staggering 13500
times more than PhosLock.
--
Champion Lighting & Supply
championlighting.com
1-800-673-7822
Warner Marine
New member
I'm trying to steady myself as I read through this thread...
Ok, lets just start by saying that GFO Phosphate Removers have been used successfully for years in the marine aquarium hobby. PHOSaR is NO DIFFERENT than other GFO products in chemical composition. PHOSaR is superior to the competitors because of the unique pelleted shape and pore structure.
And I would hope that the people who perform "research" might at least understand some basic chemistry. Ferric Oxide Hydroxide is completely INSOLUBLE at any pH above about 3 or 4 so claims of Iron leaching are ridiculous. Saying otherwise is denying PHYSICS and manipulating the market.
Jon Warner
Warner Marine
Ok, lets just start by saying that GFO Phosphate Removers have been used successfully for years in the marine aquarium hobby. PHOSaR is NO DIFFERENT than other GFO products in chemical composition. PHOSaR is superior to the competitors because of the unique pelleted shape and pore structure.
And I would hope that the people who perform "research" might at least understand some basic chemistry. Ferric Oxide Hydroxide is completely INSOLUBLE at any pH above about 3 or 4 so claims of Iron leaching are ridiculous. Saying otherwise is denying PHYSICS and manipulating the market.
Jon Warner
Warner Marine
Warner Marine
New member
And as far as the "disintegration" claims...
Whether the media is GFO, GAC or others... water flow will cause the sharp edges of the media to abrade itself. Spherical and pelleted media abrade LESS because there are FEWER sharp edges to abrade.
If one is concerned about DUST found in GFO, GAC or any other media, it is OK to rinse the media with RO/DI water.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that dust from GFO has ANY EFFECT in the marine aquarium and factually it CAN NOT leach Iron. Indeed the years of usage in marine and reef aquaria say otherwise.
It is truly the WORST kind of marketing to respond to a new product by "making things up".
Jon Warner
Warner Marine
Whether the media is GFO, GAC or others... water flow will cause the sharp edges of the media to abrade itself. Spherical and pelleted media abrade LESS because there are FEWER sharp edges to abrade.
If one is concerned about DUST found in GFO, GAC or any other media, it is OK to rinse the media with RO/DI water.
There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that dust from GFO has ANY EFFECT in the marine aquarium and factually it CAN NOT leach Iron. Indeed the years of usage in marine and reef aquaria say otherwise.
It is truly the WORST kind of marketing to respond to a new product by "making things up".
Jon Warner
Warner Marine
Warner Marine
New member
So just to summarize, We looked at both GFH and GFO raw materials for our Phosphate Removal product. We chose GFO OVER GFH because it WORKS better. GFH material (the 2 wet products on the market) is messy, heavily stains the water and removes LESS Phosphate as shown in Richard Harkers GFO vs. GFH review.
So what's the big deal with PHOSaR? GFH (the 2 wet products) allows nearly ZERO water to pass through it in most applications using a media bag in a sump or in a canister. It is more effective in a reactor, but no more so than a GFO based product.
The existing GFO products on the market are granular and they can also impede water flow because of the shape of the media.
PHOSaR has a unique shape and pore structure that allows more efficient water flow. Of course you can't pound the media in a filter sock on the end of your overflow flowing 800gph with ANY media. But in all applications, PHOSaR outflows the competitors and breaks down LESS. PHOSaR may be rinsed with RO/DI water prior to use if desired. Any dust that comes off of the media is INERT and will NEVER contribute to Iron levels in the aquarium.
And to the ORIGINAL POSTER, I'm sorry to hear of your loss but the PHOSaR physically CAN'T cause a condition that could harm your corals or produce foam. And YES, Aluminum will cause those EXACT symptoms. So next time grow longer arms or go Anti-Perspirant free next time you're digging in your aquarium.
Jon Warner
Warner Marine
So what's the big deal with PHOSaR? GFH (the 2 wet products) allows nearly ZERO water to pass through it in most applications using a media bag in a sump or in a canister. It is more effective in a reactor, but no more so than a GFO based product.
The existing GFO products on the market are granular and they can also impede water flow because of the shape of the media.
PHOSaR has a unique shape and pore structure that allows more efficient water flow. Of course you can't pound the media in a filter sock on the end of your overflow flowing 800gph with ANY media. But in all applications, PHOSaR outflows the competitors and breaks down LESS. PHOSaR may be rinsed with RO/DI water prior to use if desired. Any dust that comes off of the media is INERT and will NEVER contribute to Iron levels in the aquarium.
And to the ORIGINAL POSTER, I'm sorry to hear of your loss but the PHOSaR physically CAN'T cause a condition that could harm your corals or produce foam. And YES, Aluminum will cause those EXACT symptoms. So next time grow longer arms or go Anti-Perspirant free next time you're digging in your aquarium.
Jon Warner
Warner Marine
Last edited:
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