PhosAR experience

Jon,

Must the water flow "through" the media to bind PO4? If it just needs contact with the surface of the media how do the inner pores of the media get used? Sorry I've not seen your product but other GFO's are all pretty small. Both Dr. Farley and Salifert suggest against using reactors for GFO due to the abrasion they cause (IIRC).
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7633291#post7633291 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gtrestoration
Jon,

Must the water flow "through" the media to bind PO4? If it just needs contact with the surface of the media how do the inner pores of the media get used? Sorry I've not seen your product but other GFO's are all pretty small. Both Dr. Farley and Salifert suggest against using reactors for GFO due to the abrasion they cause (IIRC).
Click to expand...

Yes, very astute. If you have a media bag full of GFH or granular GFO, the water will flow AROUND the bag not THROUGH it. The outside surface area of the bag will adsorb effectively. But the media INSIDE will still be "surrounded" by the same water. Think of it like a baseball in the sump, water only touches the outside of the ball. But a whiffle ball allows water to flow around AND through the ball. PHOSaR allows water to flow THROUGH the bag... at a slow rate effectively using all the media, not just the media contacting the outside of the bag. And YES, I prefer the use of media bags to take advantage of slower flow rates. Reactors always beat up the media, GFO OR GFH. PHOSaR is designed for non-reactor usage but when used in a reactor it outperforms the others, too.

Jon Warner
 
Jon, Thanks for coming on to clear things up. I have never trusted test results by 3rd parties with vested interests in the outcome. I look forward to the 3rd party test results that will come from Randy Holmes Farley later on this summer.
 
Somebody saw this and asked me to come here so here I am, as Randy is on vacation :).......again :lol:


So, I will play devil's advocate :D

Bayoxide E33.

Did anyone actually type this into goggles to see what they many find or are we just assuming ? Anyone have a clue how many studies on this E33 have been done ? Anyone think there is more than say 1 kind of E33 ?

I do not know what the Warner product is and I would not assume unless one knows. There are many such products and all have different characteristics.

Did anyone even read gcarroll posted link to Randy's article before hitting the keyboard ?

GFO or GFH are not completely insoluble in seawater, that is a know fact, just like AL2O3, activated aluminum or Phosguard is not . Either can leach Al+++ or Fe+++ to some degree and its to what degree we need to look at. Randy has pointed this out in his GF and Al+++ articles. Some that have used GF's have seen problem with corals, similar to Al+++ but no where near as bad. But a good rinsing of any media is what one needs to do before testing or making comments. A good rinsing of GAC that may test + for PO4 will often come up 0 if rinsed well.

Some GF's, like maybe the Warner and the E33 are porous, like GAC and is the reason they are becoming so common in the water wastewater industry over other GF's. Porosity and the size of the pores, makes a world of deference.


Randy is running some test on all or most of them for a near future article so we should wait before we start running off bad mouthing as one may end up with foot in mouth. It has happen many times.

As far as studies go there is another other than the Harker. Compare them and see what you can find but many of the PO4 removers are left out


4 PO4 removers tested
http://www.rowausa.com/pdf/Rowaphos_Berlin_Test_Report.pdf

2 PO4 removers tested
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/review.htm

Comparing to products such as PhosBan and Rowaphos, PU¯RA PhosLock

Where is it I want to see it :)

This is the response I go from them


Come on now, this is a PhosLock ad
 
John Warner had stated in another post to contact this vendor for ordering his product. My post was not an attempt to "bad mouth" the product. Since this was a discussion on PhosAR, I just wanted to share what the response was when I tried to purchase it from one of Jon's dealers.
<BR>
I knew I could count on the members (ie Boomer) here to make sense of the response I got.
 
Well, bite your tongue then jp :) as I think the Warner is a better product than the rest. I do not know anything about this PhosLock, other than they may be in big trouble for using someone else's registered trade mark name, of a clay mineral PO4 remover, common to FW and wastewater plants ;)

You do not hear much of Warner but when ever someone hits me or Randy in the head with words like "purity", "grade", etc. we always throw out Warner.

edit
I forgot, GFO and GFH are all the same thing, Iron Oxide Hydroxides

FeO(OH) or Fe(OH)O. Putting the O on the other side does not change it by magic. Neither are really not granular ferric oxides or ferric hydroxides which is something else, FeO or Fe (OH)3. Iron Oxide Hydroxide, FeO(OH) is found as the mineral goethite ( very common), where as a ferric hydroxide, Fe (OH)3, is a mineral like Bernalite (very rare, as it is quickly altered to iron oxide hydroxide).
 
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All i know is that after the club meeting I added the PhosAR and the ChemiPure carbon and ever since I have produced no skimmate, I have lost all my Xenia and Gorgonias, and I have a film on my water surface that will not go away, (and I've tried everything, more surface movement, paper towels, stirring it, etc. My water just now has a yuck factor to it that rises to the surface and causes a film).

It was not the phosphate remover product. I removed it as soon as the corals died and my symptoms have not improved even though I've been without the product for several days. I'm not even looking for reasons anymore. At this point I would happy enough if someone can help me to get back to producing skimmate and get the film off my water.

I will post this in a new thread as the subject of this thread is not appropriate for a "help josh unscrew his tank" discussion.

In the new thread I will recount everything I have been doing in detail.

Thanks a lot for all your posts.

Josh
 
Let me trow this out. For some reason, PhosAR and the ChemiPure killed or something else ( more than likely) killed the surface tension and now all organics that run through the skimmer are not getting collected and ending up as you see and with the results you are getting.

Josh, do you know anyone that has a Vortex Diatom filter or a Systems One filter.?

Link me to the new post when its is up so I can try to figure out what is going on :)
 
I say those links from WM but there price etc is not online yet (as John stated)..I guess I will have to call (which I hate)...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7634212#post7634212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jpatrician
John Warner had stated in another post to contact this vendor for ordering his product. My post was not an attempt to "bad mouth" the product. Since this was a discussion on PhosAR, I just wanted to share what the response was when I tried to purchase it from one of Jon's dealers.
<BR>
I knew I could count on the members (ie Boomer) here to make sense of the response I got.
Click to expand...
After re-reading the whole thread, it appears to me that Jon was not referring to you as bad mouthing the product. I think that he was referring to the testing performed by the manufacturer of a competing product (Magnavore, makers if PhosLock). They were basically able to talk Champion Lighting out of carrying Mr Warner's product by some creative statement. I'm sure he is happy that you brought this response from Champion Lighting to his attention.
 
Man, that sucks that stuff like that happens. I can't believe champion lighting would do such a thing and believe statements from another third party with vested interests in their own products.

Makes me lose a little faith in those guys. :(
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7656945#post7656945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mburnickas
anyone have any online sites that have PhosAR in stock (order online)???
Click to expand...
Both the links on the warnermarine websites lead to sites that don't currently list phosar as an item they sell. I have not been able to find it for sale online yet.
 
Twisted, Give it until the end of the week or the first of next week. I'm told information will be available then. I understand both of those web-sites will be carrying this product. They just have to get things updated.

I tried this stuff. It's unbelievable. Dropped my Po4 from 1.0 ppm to .05 ppm in 72 hours.
 
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