phosphate content of reef foods

[RDCompton03]

Is there somewhat of an agreement in the hobby as to which type of food generally has the least phosphates: Powdered, flake, or frozen mysis (drained)? Also, I feed all three n different days. When I feed the powdered I use a mix of Coral Frenzy, Phytoplan, and Goniopowder. If I feed those individually the Coral Frenzy by far gets the highest feeding response from the corals but I seem to remember somewhere reading that some people have had problems with Coral Frenzy resulting in outbreaks of cyanobacteria. Is there and reason associated with the product itself that would cause this or is it more likely a result of occasional overfeeding by reefers?

 

[Rob Pnuke]

I think the problem with Coral Frenzy is that people are using the recommended amount which is way to much. I use half of what they say and spot feed with it, never have had an issue. As for foods I don't know what to tell you. I use all three you mentioned and rods foods as well and I feed pretty heavy compared to most. I tested my Phosphates last night with a Hanna URL and it came back at .009. This is with running GFO though.

 

[BigJohnny]

Mysis 100% the most forgiving food in terms of excess nutrients out of what you mentioned, especially if you drain it (which you should).

Powdered and flake it depends on brand. I use a wide variety of foods but one of my favorite pellets is elos svm2, it's highly concentrated and contributes 0 phosphates. Phosphates mostly come from preservatives in food. I also use new life spectrum pellets and you have to be careful with those. It really just depends on the brand.

 

[CStrickland]

I'm not familiar with the elos food, but I don't see how it would be of much nutritional value if it were phosphate-free? Phos is a basic building block for life. Like, DNA and energy storage. Phos-based preservatives would contribute to an issue, but removing them still leaves plenty behind.

Here's a good article with info on sources of phos in reef aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

 

[BigJohnny]

I understand phosphate, and I've actually posted that article in a thread before haha [emoji6]. I should have phrased that differently, I meant it contributes 0 phosphates as in directly to the aquarium. Most foods contain significant amounts of inorganic phosphate preservatives. It makes a huge difference.

 

[CStrickland]

Heres a good thread about phos in foods, the chemists in it do a good job explaining what the elos phosphate claims really mean http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2111404

 

[BigJohnny]

Heres a good thread about phos in foods, the chemists in it do a good job explaining what the elos phosphate claims really mean http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2111404

No unfortunately they actually kind of bypass the point with elos. He said less phosphate doesn't mean it's a better food, correct, it means it has less phosphate haha, which is the point.

Like I said before, phosphate preservatives is the difference. New Life Spectrum for example has added phosphate preservatives.

 

[CStrickland]

What he said was that the absence of polyphosphate did not make elos a better food.
But how much more phos is added to the tank using dry foods preserved with inorganic phosphate compared to dry foods without?

I would think a very small amount even assuming it's the only preservative used, considering the tiny amount of preservative that would be necessary in pellets. Further, once fed to the tank the food enters the phos cycle and readily converts between the organic and inorganic forms.
I'm also kinda suspicious of the elos marketing because they brag about using aluminum cans for the food because plastic has phosphates. I mean, lol we have a lot of plastic going on, right?

This is a quite different question than, say, rinsing a preservative from raw seafood before you make blender mush, or not pouring excessive filter-feeder food in the tank. I get the sense they are capitalizing on those (rational) measures to inflate the products value. Personally, I think a spendy food is not the most efficient way to control phos, but if it's working for you that's great. It just seems kinda hype-y

 

[BigJohnny]

Why are you still trying to debate this with me? Stop. I answered the man's question and you won't stop challenging this stupid food. I could pick apart and challenge your post, line by line until my head explodes, but id rather enjoy myself doing something else. So im just going to repeat what ive said over and over. Elos has no phosphate preservatives so it contributes less phosphate than similar foods that have them added, SIMPLE. I'm not going to continue to go back and forth with you on this.

 

[RDCompton03]

Thanks, BigJoonny, I do appreciate a straight forward answer to the question I asked. I love this board but it can be taxing at times. LOL However when you begin a question with "is there an agreement in the hobby," as I did, ,,,well it is a loaded question I suppose.

 

[CStrickland]

Lol calm down
Buying that food for phos control is like eating gluten-free cheese fries for weight loss

 

[Wonton Soup]

Mysis 100% the most forgiving food in terms of excess nutrients out of what you mentioned, especially if you drain it (which you should).

There is absolutely zero use in draining your mysis. This is a myth.

 

[Reef Frog]

I have a simple quick method for draining the brand of Mysis I use sometimes. Otherwise I observe what looks like a water slick on the surface which will make my skimmer go nuts for a few hours. I want fat inside my fish & corals, not floating in (or on) the water.

I've always understood that plant based fish foods contain higher levels of phosphate per unit of weight than most animal based foods.

 

[CStrickland]

I've always understood that plant based fish foods contain higher levels of phosphate per unit of weight than most animal based foods.

Yeah, nori sheets are notorious for that. Makes sense in the big picture that algae added to the tank is going to compost into algae fertilizer.

There's also a diff between animals. Bones hold a lot of phosphorus so something like a peeled shrimp is going to affect the overall phosphate in a tank less than something like ground up silversides. That's why meaty foods can be compared in terms of the protein : phosphate ratio, in addition to phos : weight. But with plants that's not appropriate because there's not much protein and a lot of the weight is phos.

Ive noticed that when I feed whole clams some of my fish seek out the stomach contents, I think they like the predigested plant matter maybe? I bet that has a lot of phos in it too.

 

[Reef Frog]

Interesting. Lots of predators, both land and sea, seem to go for the gut contents first. Sometimes the dominant animal(s) will monopolize these parts as well. I've watched plenty of nature documentaries where wolves or big cats go for the stomach & intestines first. Maybe they depend on this pre or partially digested plant material for certain nutrients that aren't available any other way.

 

[RDCompton03]

There is absolutely zero use in draining your mysis. This is a myth.

Just looking at what come off of the melted mysis, I would think that there has to be some benefit from draining. Unless there is a benefit in the melt-off, there has to be a benefit from not introducing it to the tank.