Phosphate Issue I think

i Tuna

New member
I've had my 75g system up and running for 6 months now +/-.

Early on I overestimated the amount of food my reef needed and severely over fed the system with brightwell's phyto (5mL daily), new life spectrum pellets (side note: i noticed that every time i feed the pellets i start having algae issues; fed 3x daily), and brightwell's zooplankton (5mL daily).

At that time my filtration was composed of GAC, live rock, two mangrove plants and a Skimz SM121 protein skimmer.

2 months into setup I stopped feeding NLS food, and switched to a 2 stage feeding schedule. (forgot the brand name of the fish food, will update when I get home)

3 months into the setup, I decided to install a phosban 150 reactor with biopellets.

About a month later, nitrates began to test consistently at 0. However as I have not been able to get a reliable, accurate test kit for phosphate, so, I have not been able to measure it. I have kept note of algae growth this whole time though. I had a few issues with hair algae popping up on the edges of my rock scape, and some cyano growth on the sand bed (no more than an inch deep). Algae growth on glass only appeared on fish feedings of 3x daily. Once reduced to 2x daily feedings the growth slowed to the point that I only had to clean the aquariums walls once a week or a little longer.

To combat the hair algae/ cyano, every time I do a water change (15-20%, once every 1-2 weeks), I siphon out as much of the cyano / hair algae that I can.

Growth in my SPS has pretty much been non existent this entire time. I have had some acro's have some base growth but not enough to tell that the size of the colony has increased.

More recently, even though I've been removing as much algae as possible, the hair algae continues to grow, mostly on rock work, which is leading me to believe that my rocks may be leaching phosphate.

I don't want to have to remove my rock work, so since 3 days ago, since replacing my GAC, I also added 75% of the recommended amount for Sorb-4 to help remove phosphate.

Question is, am I moving too fast on filtration changes / upgrades? I had originally thought that biopellets would have been enough to keep phosphate at appropriate levels.

Good news is that one of the LFS's in Kuwait recently got a shipment of Elos test kits. So on my way home from work I'll swing by and pick up one of the High Res Elos Phosphate test kits and report back with my system reading.
 
Definitely get that Po4 tested and report back.

The cyano could be related to either Po4, lighting, or an issue from the bio-pellets. IMHO I would run GFO in the reactor instead. A good sand bed and live rock will knock out most if not all of your NO3 issues. Bio-Pellets can polish off tiny amounts of Po4 but doesn't really do much for Po4 export.

The fact you have hair algae with the cyano leads me to believe there is definitely a Po4 issue in the tank. Might have to get aggressive with the GFO usage to strip it, testing at least every other day for the first month (just went through it.. sucks)

Hope some of this is of help to you.

~Rich
 
On another note, you would be surprised how little you really need to feed, it is a reef tank, lots of things in there for most of your critters to nibble on all the time.

I went from feeding 2-3x a day, then having a battle royal with phosphates, to feeding every other day with frozen...

I still throw a small pinch of flake in there once a day cause I like to spoil them a bit haha.

~Rich
 
Originally I wanted to buy the TLF GFO (since it's the only kind of GFO available in Kuwait) instead of Sorb-4, however when I went out to buy it the TLF distributor LFS was closed. And after asking numerous people at LFS's, they all had no idea what GFO even was and claimed that no one in the country carried it, not even the TLF distributor. Hence why I ended up buying the Sorb-4.

From what I read, Sorb-4 pretty much acts much in the same way as GFO. Not to mention it seems to be an iron based phosphate adsorbent (the granules are a reddish color).

As for my lighting, currently I have a Radion xr30w over my cube. The aquarium is 24"Lx24"Wx26"H. I have my lights set to 20000K throughout the day: 20% power (7-9am), 90% power (9am-7pm), 20% power (7-9pm). I'm probably going to end up lowering total light exposure time from 14 hours to 10 hours by removing 4 hours of the 90% power time (Most of my coral are fading in color / slowly turning more white).
 
Oh and the sand bed is pretty much non existent... Only towards the middle of the reef is it actually an inch deep, the outer edges, it just barely covers the glass and in some places it doesn't at all. The only reason I still have some sand is because of my 3 yellow wrasses, watchman goby and pistol shrimp.
 
Well we can say it isn't your lighting for sure then haha.

Sucks you can't easily get GFO, I would have thought you'd be able to get D-D Rowaphos there. Being iron based is good, I had it in my head that it was an aluminum based product you were using now.

Sounds like you have a very nice setup, and with that I think I will give my conclusion, and if I'm wrong there are a lot of people in this section smarter than I am lol.

Po4 buildup is being caused by overfeeding, aggressive phosphate reducing media is a must, when I was battling my Po4 issues, I was (and still am) using Rowaphos, IMO the best out there for GFO, and even with it's capacity, I was changing media every 4 days on my 100g system.

Add to system, check Po4, re-check every 2 days, if I saw the first reading at say, .10, 2nd reading at .06, and 3rd reading at .07, change media and repeat. Took about 3 months in my tank. To get to where now GFO lasts about 2 1/2 weeks, so I'm still not done yet haha.

Shipping probably kills to Kuwait, but if you can, try to get a Hanna Po4 meter, either the 714 low range phosphate like I have, or the Ultra low range phosphorus. When I was having Po4 issues, cleaning the glass twice a day and cyano, my salifert would be undetectable, my hanna would say 0.14 repeatably.

After a few months I got desperate enough I used Rowaphos in the reactor, and got a bag of Phoszorb (aluminum based) and hung it in the sump for 4 days. Aluminum based media absorbs P04 very fast, but also gets full fast, and can leech back into the system.


The cyano could be related to the Po4 buildup or from the carbon dosing of the bio-pellets. Did the cyano show up before or after the bio-pellets went online? If after, how long? If before, did it get worse?

~Rich
 
Well we can say it isn't your lighting for sure then haha.

Sucks you can't easily get GFO, I would have thought you'd be able to get D-D Rowaphos there. Being iron based is good, I had it in my head that it was an aluminum based product you were using now.

Sounds like you have a very nice setup, and with that I think I will give my conclusion, and if I'm wrong there are a lot of people in this section smarter than I am lol.

Po4 buildup is being caused by overfeeding, aggressive phosphate reducing media is a must, when I was battling my Po4 issues, I was (and still am) using Rowaphos, IMO the best out there for GFO, and even with it's capacity, I was changing media every 4 days on my 100g system.

Add to system, check Po4, re-check every 2 days, if I saw the first reading at say, .10, 2nd reading at .06, and 3rd reading at .07, change media and repeat. Took about 3 months in my tank. To get to where now GFO lasts about 2 1/2 weeks, so I'm still not done yet haha.

Shipping probably kills to Kuwait, but if you can, try to get a Hanna Po4 meter, either the 714 low range phosphate like I have, or the Ultra low range phosphorus. When I was having Po4 issues, cleaning the glass twice a day and cyano, my salifert would be undetectable, my hanna would say 0.14 repeatably.

After a few months I got desperate enough I used Rowaphos in the reactor, and got a bag of Phoszorb (aluminum based) and hung it in the sump for 4 days. Aluminum based media absorbs P04 very fast, but also gets full fast, and can leech back into the system.


The cyano could be related to the Po4 buildup or from the carbon dosing of the bio-pellets. Did the cyano show up before or after the bio-pellets went online? If after, how long? If before, did it get worse?

~Rich

As for the Hanna checkers, I already ordered multiple types of tests from the distributor in Kuwait, but I have to wait 30-45 days until the shipment arrives.

Cyano started on a head of Goniopora that was slowly wasting away. I didn't want to get rid of it since there was always still a few polyps that seemed healthy. So, it started before the addition of biopellets. I ended up removing that head of goni, 2 weeks ago or so, because it eventually just got completely covered in cyano. Also though, there is a very thin layer of cyano now growing over a rock where I HAD hair algae that I couldn't remove. My guess is that that cyano is just making use of the PO4 that is being released by the slowly receding hair algae.

Regards, Walid
 
If the rock is the source of the phosphate, it might take quite a bit of time and pruning to fix the problem. I agree that GFO might help. Hopefully, the Sorb-4 is a GFO, or at least close enough.
 
So here's my update:

Yesterday, I ended up taking apart my rock structures, shaking the rocks around to release and trapped detritus and algae, needless to say there was quite a bit, but it got cleared up in 5 min and is mostly trapped in the filter sock now.

I also siphoned out as much algae as possible, followed by picking any left overs that I could reach manually. This ended up being a 10% water change as well.

Today, just now infact I checked my phosphate level using the Elos high prescision kit. Reading showed 0.03 mg/l of phosphate.

If I'm not mistaken, this is an appropriate level for my phosphate to be at... I'll check again in two days time though to see if it fluctuates.

Also, upon further searching, I have a friend who's coming to Kuwait from NYC soon, so I'll get her to get me some RowaPhos and TLF gfo just incase I may need it :)
 
You want Po4 there or less, but there is probably more in your system than the test is showing as it's going to be bound in things in the tank.

Or, perhaps a happier thing is the Sorb-4 reduced your Po4 to a good level, test again every couple days, and the first time you see it about the .03 reading, change it out :)
 
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