I get a decent brown algae bloom everytime I perform a water change. Unfortunately the budget doesn't call for a RO system. The water in my area has a very high level of phosphates added to it. I've tried a few products that the LFS sells and have not had any luck to date. It's frustrating watching the brown film form on my glass and sand after every water change. By the way all my other chemistry is within normal limits. I only get a phosphate spike after water changes. Does anyone know of a surefire method or product for removing phosphates?
phosphate removal?
- Thread starter nickyp
- Start date
If a RO system is out of your budget buy 3 or for of the 5 gal water jugs and have them filled with RO water. There are machines that will fill them with RO water at most grocery stores. I was having the same problem untill I started to do this. Once I did four 25% water changes and used the water for top off the problem went away. Now instead of doing biweekly water changes I do them every quarterly. My tank looks and is much cleaner.
Hopefully this will help
Hopefully this will help
MrRyanT
MrRyanT
GFO is very good at removing phosphates. I understand about the budget but a RO/DI is really your best long term solution. You could mix up your saltwater and then let a bag of GFO sit in the newly mixed water for a couple of days before doing your water change. That would probably get most of the phosphate out of the water and I think the GFO could be reused over several water changes.
RO/DI water is an absolute must. Stop buying LFS solutions and get to the root of the problem, the source water.
There are things like the bluelife phosphate remover which is lanthanide something-or-other, but it binds with the phosphate in the water column and many people have had great success with them.
I just wonder what happens once they're bound up.
There are things like the bluelife phosphate remover which is lanthanide something-or-other, but it binds with the phosphate in the water column and many people have had great success with them.
I just wonder what happens once they're bound up.
There was a lot of discussion about it a while back on RC (probably a year or more ago), and the general consensus was that it definitely worked, and worked well. I just never feel comfortable with concentrating and settling out chemicals. Lots of personal accounts of it working though. It was right on the cusp of when GFO was becoming popular, so the almighty PO4 dragon was just beginning to be slain by newbies everywhere with easy to use tools just introduced to the hobby. I guess now GFO is so inexpensive and wildly accessible, most people don't bother with chemical solutions any more.
iFisch
New member
Well, if I knew the bonded P04 would stick to a variety of foam/sponge pads, I would use it. I have three types. 1 thicker sponge to collect larger scraps, 1 medium size sponge to collect medium size scraps, 1 ultra-fine sponge for ultra-fine scrap collecting, and 1" foam water-polishing foam. I rinse each 2x a week.
No skimmer for my 14g.
This is how "I" do it.
I need to do a little more research into this product, and like one reviewer from MD said, he bought it for emergencies.
But, what leaves me skeptical is:
In addition, regular use of Phosphate Control will increase the vitality, color and growth of your aquarium's inhabitants. Phosphate Control is Veterinarian Approved, and has been used by leading Public Aquariums
When multiple reviewers said it was kind of iffy due to the clouding, and corals closing up. Now how can a chemical remove P04, and increase vitality, color and growth, unless a growth stimulator is part of the main ingredient.
And what does it have to do with getting Veterinarian's approval? What the heck does that mean? And leading PA's? They'd need gallons of this stuff. And unless they gave it away, I'd like to hear what PA's have actually used this stuff. I don't believe that either.
Leaves me pretty skeptical...
iFisch
New member
I don't know if this is directed towards me, or anyone who has a phosphate problem regardless of the type of water used. It is potentially a solution to a wide problem.
I buy RODI from a LFS @ $.40/gal and he lets me view the TDS meter whenever I want. Since we have severely hard water here, it reads 1-2 on the TDS meter. Other LFS';s sell 1-4. This is the lowest I can find locally. Even if I bought a RODI unit, it would be the same, hard water going into the machine anyways.
Not that a reading on a TDS meter at 1-2 is bad, 0 is obviously preferred.
Without doing huge WC's, multiple 50%'ers, use of GFO is necessary to keep down P04. I'd actually prefer to use a chemical if I could, if I knew what was listed as the ingredient(s). And the practice I use with the sponges/foam would be efficient enough to collect the bonded P04.
Simple research on google on the active chemicals can bring a sort of knowledge to the average human without being a chemist can understand. And I love doing this kind of work. However I am still a little skeptical of the above product. It's time to hit up google.
Phosphate can be removed in a number of ways:
GFO which is expensive probably more so than an ro/di unit.
Aluminum based binders are less so but many fret that they may leach some aluminum.
Lanthanum chloride floculants.Pool store variety is not very expensive. Using them in a reasonably safe way requires extensive filtration to remove particlulates which are precipitated phosphate.
A refugium with chaetomorpha.
carbon dosing( vodkal vinegar, etc).
GFO which is expensive probably more so than an ro/di unit.
Aluminum based binders are less so but many fret that they may leach some aluminum.
Lanthanum chloride floculants.Pool store variety is not very expensive. Using them in a reasonably safe way requires extensive filtration to remove particlulates which are precipitated phosphate.
A refugium with chaetomorpha.
carbon dosing( vodkal vinegar, etc).
iFisch
New member
RODI and GFO have nothing to do with one another. GFO is a media designed to remove P04. RODI is a machine that filters and cleans the water, removing water hardness, heavy metals, toxins, and many other impurities.
Can't truly run a refugium on a BC. Already tried. Just not enough space, like a true HOB fuge (Ecosystem/CPR).
Carbon dosing - extremely risky if you don't know exactly what your doing. I've heard everything from minor outbreaks to cyano outbreaks, when not properly used. Vodka/brown sugar method seems to be left to the chemist, or well educated people who are dosing carbons.
I have started dosing MB7, and will be pairing it up with Elos Zeolite, as well as my extensive combination of sponges/pads/foam.
The point is that removing phosphate from the source water via grfo is more costly than treating it with an ro/di unit in the long run.. Most certainly know the difference between the two
Brightwell Micrp Bachter 7 is simply seed bacteria for nitification and denitrificateion. It has nothing to do with removing phosphate.
Brightwell Micrp Bachter 7 is simply seed bacteria for nitification and denitrificateion. It has nothing to do with removing phosphate.
iFisch, something to keep in mind is that Zeolite, no matter how you cut it or which product you use, is still glorified carbon dosing. So you'll have very similar if not the same effects as vodka dosing. You also MUST have a QUALITY skimmer to do this, since it'll be creating the same bacteria as vodka dosing, which has to be skimmed out. I guess you can catch the bacteria in filter media and change them out constantly, but that sounds like more trouble than it's worth to me.
Doing any advanced filtration methodology in a water volume of 14g is asking for trouble and is more than likely not possible. I used to run a 24g, and it taught me that the only way to run low nutrient in a nano is to not be adding nutrients (i.e. no fishes, etc)
Doing any advanced filtration methodology in a water volume of 14g is asking for trouble and is more than likely not possible. I used to run a 24g, and it taught me that the only way to run low nutrient in a nano is to not be adding nutrients (i.e. no fishes, etc)
And yes, as TMZ mentioned, Microbacter7 shouldn't do anything by itself, it needs a food source, specifically carbon. If you're doing Zeo, you'll be adding one of the liquid supplements that is a food source, which incidentally is a carbon (vodka) source as well, since that's what zeo kits use for food.
iFisch
New member
I understand. However I spoke with Elos over the phone, the company who's Zeolite I decided to go with, said my method would work. Sure the sponges needed to be cleaned every few days, but I swear, it takes like 2 minutes to wash all 5 of them. Oceanic is the only company that makes a small enough skimmer for my tank, and I haven't heard a lot of good things about it. I've only heard good stuff once you tweak it to the max, which is more trouble than what I'm currently doing.
I'm not trying to run a full blown SPS tank, I just want to get my NO3 and PO4 under control, that's all. I do not need an ultra-low nutrient tank.
I wash all frozen food, my pellet food is P04 and NO3 free, so there is minimal P04/N03 going in. I guess I need to cut back the feeding a tiny bit.
It's not like my 'trates and phates are way out of control, I'd just like them a little lower than where they are currently.
FYI, when I make the move to a 25-29g I will be running a Ecosystem 'fuge with a small canister filter for a tiny amount of zeolite and carbon (going to be ROX .08)
I just need to plan it to a T, and execute it. I am still doing a little research on how people make successful moves to larger tanks, the procedures necessary, etc.
iFisch
New member
Yes, I understand. However the best water I have found has a TDS reading of 1-2. Sure, it's not 0, but I have read readings of 1-2 aren't that bad.
I'm not trying to remove P04 from the source water, because I know it's pure, I am using GFO currently to remove P04 from my tank, not the top off water.
It costs me $1.80 a month to do WC's, and a grand total of $2.20 including top-off water and WC's. It would take me 125 WC to recoupe the price of a RODI unit. At this point, I'm not too interested in one. Maybe when I get a larger tank, it may be my #1 upgrade. Just depends on how big I go. I'd like a 25-29, but will buy whatever is available locally from my reef club.
aquaph8
Love The Fish
All I was saying was not to use those products to fix tap water. Everybody has phosphates from one source or another that they deal with from time to time. My point was not mess with tap water regardless. RO water is better for many reasons. I was talking to the tread starter though.
