Phosphates killing toadstool or toadstool causing phosphates?

[90GalFOWLR]

I posted this in the wrong forum this morning, sorry if you see it in both. I accidentally posted in the newb forum.

I'll start off by saying that all of my parameters are good except apparently phosphates. I dont have them on hand but I know nitrates are 0, temp is 78, salinity 1.026. They are constant and good

I have a toadstool that up to a month ago was awesome. it was 10"-12" across, the tentacle type things on it were about 3/4" long the stem on it was probobly 4" long. It was very nice and healthy. It was for approx 6 months too. Its not a fresh addition.

Then one day it didnt open very well at all. Maybe 3"-4" across and the tentacles were about 1/8" extended and a dark ugly color. This thing is ugly now and would be out of my tank if it werent for the hope of it returning to its former glory.

At the same time (within the same week) I developed a hair algea and cyano problem. It got pretty bad. My return spray bar was COVERED with hair, my heater, rocks, everything covered in about a 1" hair. The cyano aspect isnt as bad as the hair.

I used to use a product in my reactor (forget the brand) and had a pump on the reactor that was kind of under sized. After 2 or 3 weeks of this mess being out of control I upgraded the pump on the reactor back to the correct size and bought new stuff. Phosloc. This stuff does appear to be working because allthough everything is covered still... I wouldnt classify it as out of control. it is "contained".

I scrubbed stuff, scrapped others, siphoned, did my water changes and its not spreading but the stuff I couldnt physically remove is still there (which includes nearly all on the rock)

Phosphate test come up negative... Im not going to say I dont have them because we all know tests suck, and the algea is consuming the phosphates and thats why they dont show up.

My question is this... Happening within days of each other for no apparent reason I assume one is caused by the other. I dont have many, but other corals are fine. Did the toadstool die (or begin to) and give off something cause such bad phosphates.

If the toadstool hasnt completely opened or even 1/2 opened in over a month should I cut my losses and remove it?

How do I remove a toadstool that is attatched to a $40 rock?

 

[travis32]

I really have a tough time believing that your toad stool is causing your phosphates, nor do I believe that the phosphates are killing the toad stool. Nor do I believe the toadstool caused the HA and cyano outbreak. Something else had to have changed.. Something got in the water that shouldn't have (brass, copper, etc.) Someone fed way too much that caused a slight spike in nitrites, ammonia, and nitrates for a day, just enough to start killing the toadstool. Or something else died in the tank that was never found, etc..

Given the cyano and HA outbreak, I'd almost go with someone dumped a lot of food in the tank that shouldn't have. I think the HA and the Toadstool are symptoms of the problem.

The real cause who knows. I should also state that high phosphates shouldn't kill a toadstool unless they were really really high. I have one almost the same size as yours, slightly smaller in circumferance, and I had phosphates actually test out as high as 1.0 on a test kit, and it showed no care about the phosphates being that high. I am working on lowering them and stuff, but, just saying, I don't think it died as a result of high phosphates. Something else had to have happened, maybe outside of your awareness or knowledge.

 

[90GalFOWLR]

So would you recomend leaving it in and just staying with weekly slightly larger water changes? I have read that they are very hard to kill and very resilliant.

The only thing that I havent seen in the tank is a sand sifting star measuring about 2.5" across. Would him dying be enough to cause this? I generally feed a cube of mysis every other day plus stuff for the corals.

Load is:

Hippo tang
Tomini Tang
Pair of Clowns
Pair of Fire Fish
Mandarin
Diamond Goby
Large Bangaii Cardinal
Cleaner Shrimp
Fire Shrimp
CUC

 

[bertoni]

I suspect the phosphate is from food. I am not sure why the toadstool is dying, but allelopathy could be an idea to consider. You can remove it with a utility knife blade, if you want to do so. I might give it some more time, personally. It's not releasing phosphate unless it's rotting.

 

[travis32]

I feed mysis mixed with brine (both frozen) mixed in RODI water / thawed, in a plastic baggie. I use a turkey baster to feed a few squirts every 2 or 3 days. As I am battling HA as well for different reasons, but my phosphates got out of control. It seems like you have some larger fish for a 90.

How much rock do you have? I agree I'm not sure what would have started POing the toadstool. Mine opens daily about 5:00pm, when my middle 400w halide turns off and my 2 outer halides turn on. It's like clock work. Don't know why it waits till then, but it does.
Anyways, toadstools can be very moody. So, I wouldn't count it out, but, feeding less would help the phosphates. Water changes would help if it's something from something rotting like ammonia or nitrates. So, Probably not a bad idea. Don't do too much at once though. 20% to 30% at most probably. If it were me, I would probably do 2 or 3 smaller water changes.

 

[90GalFOWLR]

Ok yesterday while doing some of my maintenance I poked around and I saw some stuff.

the toadstool isnt attatched to the big rock as I had though. The small rock it was originally attatched to is at the end of the stem, an inch or so up the stem is is also attatched to a slightly larger.. maybe fist size rock.

The piece of rubble it was originally attatched to has fallen off the bottom of the stem and it almost looked like ripped styrofoam at that spot on the stem. Where it connect to the larger rock it still looks healthy...or rather, alive, not healthy. Its still much smaller than originally.

I took the fist size rock out last night and gave the whole thing a dip and positioned it more optimally in the tank. This morning its still not supporting itself but I do notice more of the tentacles (is that the correct term) are extended (although still only 1/8" or so).

It still looks like crap but it looks much better than it has.

I do have one more question though... Should I take it out and scalpel off the area that extends past the fist size rock that looks like torn styrofoam. I take it that part is dead (if not the whole thing)

 

[travis32]

What do you have for CUC? Any asterina starfish? Hermits? some of them will attach to dead coral flesh and eat it. Especially Asterina starfish. Anytime I had a part of a coral that was falling off or dieing for any reason they would attach to the dead part of the flesh.

If not, I guess I would leave the dead flesh if it were me. I don't think it's going to hurt anything to leave it.

 

[bertoni]

If the coral didn't have a bad smell, it's likely live enough at this point. I'd leave it alone, but some trimming might not hurt.