Pics of closed loop drilled on bottom of tank (please post)
- Thread starter ckuhndog77
- Start date
sonofgaladriel
Shiny!
I only have four CL returns through the floor on my current 240 cube. (My next tank will have all CL returns through the bottom, around 16 of them 
)
)
morgan1965
New member
Saxby's talk at MACNA
Saxby's talk at MACNA
dgasmd- I'm in the process of setting up a 390 with 2 C/L's drilled through the bottom. I'm trying to eliminate (or at least minimize) unsightly plumbing, etc. I haven't done any drilling yet and I'm open to being talked out of it. Can you tell me more about Saxby's methods?
Thank you,
Dan
Saxby's talk at MACNA
dgasmd- I'm in the process of setting up a 390 with 2 C/L's drilled through the bottom. I'm trying to eliminate (or at least minimize) unsightly plumbing, etc. I haven't done any drilling yet and I'm open to being talked out of it. Can you tell me more about Saxby's methods?
Thank you,
Dan
morgan1965
New member
acrylic
morgan1965
New member
It's acrylic.
dgasmd
New member
Sorry for the delay there. There are a few downsides to using close loops and mostly the risks associated with the plumbing that comes with it.
1. First point of failure is the pump itself. If you ever open the wet end of a pmp like the AmpMasters or the Sequence, you'll see what the seal is and how it works. It is basicly 2 circular parts, one attached to the impeller (mobile) and one attached to the back of the wet end (non-mobile). When the shaft spins and moves the impeler, the surface of the seal that is attached to the impeller rotates on the other surface that does not move. Think of 2 O-rings placed on top of each other where the bottom one sits there and the one on top is rotating right on top of it. The contact between these two incredibly flat surfaces is what prevents water from coming out the back of the wet end. When this surface gets corroded or gets micro abbrassions or chipped off parts, the water leaks through there out the back and you see whater coming out from the back of the impeller. So, you get a little chip there and water will come out like a garden hose. Assume this is happening at 2 AM. So how low is the water going to drain in the tank? As low as the lowest point inside the tank connected tot he plumbing (discharge or intake). So, if you have a tank drilled at the bottom (like I do) the moment this happens, and it has already happened to a few people, it will drain your entire tank.
2. Second issue pertains to the plumbing itself. That is regardless of a the type of close loop, plumbing, pump, glass vs acrylic, and design. Over time, all the valves will stop working. They will never seal completely. It may happen in 6 month or 6 years, but ultimately it will happen regardless. Now, that may not seem like a big deal, but try changing the pump or clean the impeller for your close loop at the bottom of the tank with the valve leaking, which may be a little or a mini river. And trust me, you will have to sooner or later.
3. Acrylic vs glass. This applies mostly to glass tanks. Where you drill the holes in the bottom will have a lot to do with the integrity of the bottom pane. Once you put it in a stand and fill it with water, it may make the bottom have some pressure points that will crack the bottom with very little change. When you use a wood stand, over time it does settle and have tiny shifts/movement. If your tank is sitting on top of it with styrofoam, that settle has much less effect on the bottom pane, but it still has some. In other words, it may crack the bottom over time.
Again, sorry it took me so long to reply, there was a video of the build of a 5000g tank in Chicago by Deltec that Saxby had shown during MACNA. It sowed how they did the overflow and close loops coming fromthe top of the tank and out of sight. I was searching for the link to it to post it, but could not find it anywhere.
1. First point of failure is the pump itself. If you ever open the wet end of a pmp like the AmpMasters or the Sequence, you'll see what the seal is and how it works. It is basicly 2 circular parts, one attached to the impeller (mobile) and one attached to the back of the wet end (non-mobile). When the shaft spins and moves the impeler, the surface of the seal that is attached to the impeller rotates on the other surface that does not move. Think of 2 O-rings placed on top of each other where the bottom one sits there and the one on top is rotating right on top of it. The contact between these two incredibly flat surfaces is what prevents water from coming out the back of the wet end. When this surface gets corroded or gets micro abbrassions or chipped off parts, the water leaks through there out the back and you see whater coming out from the back of the impeller. So, you get a little chip there and water will come out like a garden hose. Assume this is happening at 2 AM. So how low is the water going to drain in the tank? As low as the lowest point inside the tank connected tot he plumbing (discharge or intake). So, if you have a tank drilled at the bottom (like I do) the moment this happens, and it has already happened to a few people, it will drain your entire tank.
2. Second issue pertains to the plumbing itself. That is regardless of a the type of close loop, plumbing, pump, glass vs acrylic, and design. Over time, all the valves will stop working. They will never seal completely. It may happen in 6 month or 6 years, but ultimately it will happen regardless. Now, that may not seem like a big deal, but try changing the pump or clean the impeller for your close loop at the bottom of the tank with the valve leaking, which may be a little or a mini river. And trust me, you will have to sooner or later.
3. Acrylic vs glass. This applies mostly to glass tanks. Where you drill the holes in the bottom will have a lot to do with the integrity of the bottom pane. Once you put it in a stand and fill it with water, it may make the bottom have some pressure points that will crack the bottom with very little change. When you use a wood stand, over time it does settle and have tiny shifts/movement. If your tank is sitting on top of it with styrofoam, that settle has much less effect on the bottom pane, but it still has some. In other words, it may crack the bottom over time.
Again, sorry it took me so long to reply, there was a video of the build of a 5000g tank in Chicago by Deltec that Saxby had shown during MACNA. It sowed how they did the overflow and close loops coming fromthe top of the tank and out of sight. I was searching for the link to it to post it, but could not find it anywhere.
sixxer
In Memoriam
Here is the link you were looking for Alberto.
http://www.marineaquarium.nl/december-2005Engels.php
Personally, still trying to figure out how they do those closed loops, as I have not drilled my acrylic tank yet (and prefer not to!)
http://www.marineaquarium.nl/december-2005Engels.php
Personally, still trying to figure out how they do those closed loops, as I have not drilled my acrylic tank yet (and prefer not to!)
dgasmd
New member
Their overflow floors are not part of the floor of the aquarium. It is just another smaller piece of glass with holes attached to the side of the tank. For the close loops, they bring all the plumbing (intake and discharge) from above and basicly cover them with a false wall that just clips oto the plumbing itself so you don't see it at all. They don't use eurobrace int heir tanks as they basicly use a metal frame around the top end amde of stainless steel that has braces front to back made of smaller steel bars. However, if you have a eurobrace with holes in it, you can pass the plumbing through them and either build a false overfow box to cover them or make some acrylic panels bent in a U shape and glue a pipe holder that would clip to the piping. Many many ways of doing this. You just have to have the proper planning.
Thanks for posting the video link again.
Thanks for posting the video link again.
dgasmd
New member
If your close loop's intake is going to be inside the overflow, then that means your overflow would have to "overflow" the amount the close loop puts out plus what goes into your sump. I wouldn't do it for the simple reason that your intake would be sukcing in a ton of air even if your overflow flow rate was goo enough = microbubbles!! Now, if you meant to go through the overflow and over intot he tank, I guess I can't see why not. Just drill a little hole 3" fromt he water surface on the intake pipe to the close loop pump, so if your seal blows and water starts t come out like a syphon from your pump, it will kill that syphon.
dgasmd
New member
I apologize I missed something here. I was supposed to also say how to avoid the big river should the seal go kaka. What you have to do is position your pump so the wet end of it is right at the same level as the top of the water level in the aquarium. Even if the bulkhead for the intake is at the bottom of the tank, the tank won't drain because it will suck air and break the syphon the moment the water level gets below the wet end. That is one solution I can think of. The only problem with that is if you don't have a room behind your tank to place your pumps high it will be difficult to conceal. Another issue is the plumbing itself. However, you can't have the cake and eat it too.
ckuhndog77
New member
So far no leaks from bulkheads on bottom of tank. Any time I work inside stand, I tell myself NOT to pull on any pipes.
Full
Left
Right
Any time I work inside stand, I tell myself NOT to pull on any pipes.Full
Left
Right
