(pictures) Please help identify what is killing my fish

[dleute]

This is my first tank and my first 3 fish.

The first fish (Abbey a dot-dash wrasse) was obviously breathing heavy a few days after entering the tank. I don't know if I didn't notice before that or if it wasn't happening. It didn't look like any external issues with the fish but I neglected to check the gills. It took about a week maybe more from the time I noticed the breathing to the fish dying. I didn't take pictures. Was in a bit too much shock.

The moment I saw Corduroy or Houdini (royal grammas) breathe funny I started treating the tank with prazipro. This was a few days ago. Flukes was my best guess based on the appearance of Abbey (nothing obvious external), but it didn't help. Might have made things worse. Treating in a QT wasn't an option (yes, it's the first thing on my list to buy, and QT/pre-treat every single thing first.)

I also did some large water changes. RO/DI water, mixed and heated... etc.

I think Corduroy died today (hard to tell when I can't see them next to each other). I took pictures. Outside doesn't look like any of the regular illnesses like ich, or velvet. Just looks like a fish to me. I don't know what gills normally look like so I took pictures.

There is a good chance Houdini is dead in the rock work. I haven't seen/found him yet.

Can someone identify what the problem might have been?

Thank You.

 

[vhuang168]

Need more info. How old is tank? How is it setup? Parameters?


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[dleute]

93 gallon cube Tank was cycling since mid to late January. The first fish (these 3) went in on march 2nd.

Salinity is 1.025/6. Nitrates 30-40 and dropping. Alk was around 9.5. I was using kalk and vinegar in the ATO. Temp has been fluctuating more with the warmer weather. Topping at 81.5. I was targeting around 80. Average was 80.23.

Ph was 7.8->8 depending on if you believe apex or seneye.

There is a 20 Gallon long 3 chamber sump beneath the tank with protein skimmer, heaters, apex probes... etc. Manifold was removed, so no GFO or Carbon was running. Prazipro was dosed so the skimmer is running on low. Filter socks (really media bags) changed every few days when they start splashing.

Basic Halo light. Only life in the tank was 5 nassarius snails, 2 royal grammas and 1 dot-dash wrasse.

I was spending more time on water changes and maintenance so my testing numbers are a few days old. I'll get current ones, but they have been very stable since the end of the cycle.

--Derrek

 

[vhuang168]

What salinity was the water the fish came in?

How were they acclimated?

Why are you dosing kalk?


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[dleute]

What salinity was the water the fish came in?

How were they acclimated?

Why are you dosing kalk?


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I didn't check the salinity of the stores water.

I floated the bags for 15 minutes and then added some of my tank water and floated another 15 minutes. I did that 4 times.

I wanted to start the system with carbon dosing vinegar in the ATO. To dose vinegar through the ATO, kalk also in the ATO prevents the bacteria from growing in the ATO and helps neutralize the PH reduction of vinegar.

From everything I read about both those things, is they are not a problem unless my PH gets too low or I have large bacteria blooms.

The royal grammas looked great for 3 weeks. Happy and eating. The dot dash wrasse started having definite issues by the end of the first week. But was still eating up until the end of the second. She died on the 18th. Both royal grammas were still happy and looked to be breathing normal until about 3-4 days after that which is when I started prazipro, hoping it was flukes.

I dosed it and the fish just started hiding within the day and didn't come out to eat. I saw both of them in their hiding holes last night breathing heavy. And then today I found one of them dead. I expect the other one is too.

I didn't mention it before, but the seneye says 0 ammonia as well.

--Derrek

 

[dleute]

I did just see Houdini. He is still alive, but does not look well. I expect he will die tonight or tomorrow.

I'd like to identify what it was so I know how long to leave the tank fallow. And whether it's something I can treat safely in a reef tank. There are still snails in the tank.

I also want to figure out what if anything I need to do to keep the cycle going.

--Derrek

 

[Swensos]

Has the seneye registered any ammonia over the last three weeks? Have you been replacing your ammonia sensor every thirty (30) days?

I don't see anything glaring in the pictures, but she/he does look a little skinny. How was their eating/pooping?

 

[dleute]

Has the seneye registered any ammonia over the last three weeks? Have you been replacing your ammonia sensor every thirty (30) days?

I don't see anything glaring in the pictures, but she/he does look a little skinny. How was their eating/pooping?

The seneye has not shown ammonia since I last dosed it during the cycle. Flat 0 since then.

I have to replace the ammonia sensor to see the results graphed on the site. I'm on me 3rd one as of 2 days ago. I used it for the entire cycle.

Until they started breathing heavy, they ate fine. Abbey ate even after starting to breathe heavy. The grammas hid shortly after they started. And did not eat. But they looked and acted great for at least 3 weeks.

The other royal gramma died today a little while ago. I haven't even gotten him out of the tank yet. Died in the exact same place as the first one. (could be a flow thing?)

The diseases I researched were ich, marine velvet and flukes. None of them seem to fit. Could this be a bacteria issue? Perhaps Anti Biotics was the solution?

I put the first one in RO/DI to see if anything obvious fell off him. I didn't see anything. I still have him in a small cup just in case there was anything else I should look at.

--Derrek

 

[dleute]

I just did the basic tests today:

Salinity: 1.026 (calibrated Milwaukee digital refractometer)
Nitrate: 25 (Salifert High Range. Lowest Nitrates have been)
Nitrite: 0 (API)
Phosphate: 0 (Hanna ULR) - not entirely confident in this reading. But it's always been really low.
Alkalinity: 9.4 (Hanna dkH)
Ammonia: 0 (Seneye since end of cycle)
Ph: 7.68->8.06 with average of 7.82 on apex for the month. I believe the seneye is reading high by .1->.2.

Salinity had a drop in the reading during the water changes. I assume that was probe in/out of water or not circulating. Ph had the same drop during changes. Returned to same level after water change completions.

Water is filtered by BRS Universal Plus RO/DI. I measured TDS in RO/DI that was sitting for a while (brute can with cover), and it was 1. Probably the least clean water that may have been in the tank (I used that water for lots of things, so maybe not). Other times it was 0 TDS.

I have not tested any other parameters, but I probably could (I have some kits). Since I wasn't doing anything but fish and clean-up crew with basic lights I didn't test the coral sensitive parameters ever. I suppose I could have wacky magnesium or calcium. Not sure how that would effect fish.

At this point, I have a hard time believing I killed the fish with water parameters. Could kalk do it? I know you don't want to get kalk sediment in the tank. Would a small amount of sediment hurt them? My understanding is no, the bigger problem is PH from kalk (even in powder form).

Thanks. Just trying to find the reason so I can restart the tank properly.

--Derrek

 

[dleute]

Assuming I want to leave the tank fallow (since I can't determine what this was) how long should I leave it?

 

[juanmanuelsanch]

80 days. And quarantine from now on...

 

[dleute]

80 days. And quarantine from now on...

Couple of clarifications:

Obviously ich, marine velvet and flukes all need fallow periods. But it hasn't been identified as any of those. Are they always identifiable?

If it is a bacteria infection does it still need a fallow period? Will that transfer from fish to fish?

I'm concerned about the timing. It feels like one fish came in sick or got it very early, and the others caught it and died 2 weeks after the first one. This doesn't sound like an underlying water parameter. Wouldn't that have seen more variety of individual fish behavior? All 3 had the same behavior and died the same way.

I'm looking at buying a small all in one as a QT tank, and later become a small second display. innovative marine, Red Sea nano, etc.

We actually may be moving unexpectedly this summer, so the tank may be torn down. I'm not putting any life in the tank for 4 - 6 weeks anyway until we determine if we are moving. I'll do the 12 weeks if we are not moving.

Unfortunately I can't use my tank to kickstart the QT, so I assume I need to get the QT purchased and cycled pretty soon. So it's ready to be used for the last 4-6 weeks of fallow period.

--Derrek

 

[ChrisRD]

I wouldn't rule out velvet...doesn't always show visually (starts in the gills) and kills quickly like this...symptoms sound like a match.

 

[ThRoewer]

I wouldn't rule out velvet...doesn't always show visually (starts in the gills) and kills quickly like this...symptoms sound like a match.

This.
The description of the symptoms and the timeline of events fit Amyloodinium perfectly. Amyloodinium is contrary to Cryptocaryon primarily a gill parasite. Very often all you notice is heavy breathing and reclusive behavior. The fact that all fish died one by one also supports this.

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