Pipe size for drain & return

[VegasJay]

Ok, really new and can use some basic plumbing help.
-I have a 90G RR (60Lx18Wx19H) with the overflow on one end (short end of tank is against the wall).
-Overflow box has two 1" drain bulkheads & one 3/4" return bulkhead at the bottom with two 3/4" predrilled holes near the top of the overflow.
-There is also a 3/4" return bulkhead in the bottom of the tank at the opposite end of the overflow box. Trying to create as much return flow to minimize or eliminate the use of add'l powerheads within the display tank if possible.
- I have a 30gal for the sump/fuge/skimmer in the stand

Question - from what I read, the piping seems to be upsized from the bulkhead (using 1-1/4" drain durso drain piping with 1" bulkhead, pump with 3/4" outlet recommends 1-1/2" piping, etc). Is there any rule of thumb on what size pipe to use?

 

[Sk8r]

First, make absolutely certain you always talk about ID [internal dimension] on pipe size, or it can get insane.

We'll assume that's the case here. You can get decent hose up to 1", that flexes and maneuvers easily. 1 1/4 inch is desirable for a drain, but it's a PITA to find a hose of that diameter that isn't also stiff and thick, too much so to bend. Spaflex will work, but it's very stiff. What I found is ribbed hose at Lowe's used in hot tubes, ribbed for a foot, then smooth, then ribbed for another foot: easy to handle, easy to cut, stretches lengthwise like crazy, and will sag, if not held in a sling. There is some ribbed hose that flexes, but again, size is a problem. Getting fittings to 'step down' or 'step up' a size is also a PITA. You can get fittings that join, ie, a double-ended 1" hose barb that joins two splits of a 1" hose; but getting one that's 1 1/4" on one side and 1" on the other is hard. You end up using an adapter to make the staging---one of my connectors ended up being 3 separate pieces, quite a Rube Goldberg bit.

My advice would be 3/4" to 1" on the return line and 1" to 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 on the lax downflow line...too much laxity and the thing can gurgle like a toilet. You may also want a union ball valve in the upflow [return] line so you can throttle back too strong a flow and deal with a gurgle that way. You can join two downflows with a Y, but I'd prefer to bring them into the sump with two separate ports: for one thing, if one clogs, you're still good; and for another, it's the gurgle factor, which can be really loud if you have any sort of standing wave effect set up in your drainage. What pump are you using, and how long is your run of hose? Just from the stand bottom upward, or does it cover any distance? I used a mag 9.5 with a 3/4 upflow in my 54g until I put the sump in the basement; now I'm an Iwaki with a 1" upflow, and a 1 1/4" downflow from a single line.

 

[VegasJay]

44" head pressure + I am running 4 feet horizontally to feed the return at the far end of the tank (call it return #3). Was going to put the return pump directly below the overflow so it is a straight shot upward to the two returns in the overflow box (return #1 & #2)

I had purchased a mag 12, but in all the reading on reefcentral planning to exchange for a eheim 1262. With only 900 gph on the eheim, was also considering adding a second small pump to provide return to the 3/4" return at the far end?

Was hoping to plumb with all with pvc with a minimal amount of flex hose, tube, etc.

Like everyone, one of my biggest considerations is noise.

On the drain I was going to connect both 1" drains (probably durso design) together to a 1-1/2". Have two outlets off the 1-1/2", one to the skimmer section (middle of sump) and one two the fuge (far end of sump). Plan was to be able to slow down the flow to the fuge based on what I've read, slow flow=good fuge?

 

[Sk8r]

I don't know the eheim performance, but if you have any doubts, IF you can stand the extra heat, you might consider a mag 9.5 or larger equivalent to put a good flow up that 3/4" independently. There may be a heating issue here.

PVC is saner than hose, for sure.

I can tell you a mag 9.5 isn't silent, but is fairly quiet---especially compared to the non-submerged Iwaki 100, which is like a jet plane taking off: my basement sounds like the pump room at the Seattle Aquarium. Silence is not an Iwaki trait. I've heard the Eheims are pretty quiet.

Plan a test run, a leak check, before you populate your tank. Leaks can be sneaky, and bulkheads are the worst.

Slow flow to fuge is good: mine is way hard: I'm going
to build up a barrier of live rock to slow it down and provide copepods some shelter.

The shorter the run, the better, imho. And the quieter on the downflow.

What are you doing about your skimmer? Does that make 3 pumps? That's a lot of heat. I note you're Nevada: that may make a heating issue in the summer. A chiller or a killer fan on that sump may be a good idea. non-submerged pumps are a noise generator, for sure, but submerged ones are a heat producer: you'll want all lids off sump and tank, and you'll fight a bit of a battle getting that temperature 80 degrees or slightly lower, but build a good reliable fan down in the sump area and that will help a lot. So does central air in the house.

 

[VegasJay]

Thanks, must be on Pacific Time Zone or up late.

Anyway, your questions bottom up, yes have minimum 1 if not two fans (105 cfm each) planned with central air in the house. 1st fan goes in the sump area. Will do a trial run with water before adding sand & LR. Also have T5 Nova extremes with built in fans and 8" canopy so I can add a fan up there as well. I have room for a chiller, but not the $$. LFS recommendation is I can get by without chiller. Hope to have it up and running soon and can watch the temp before adding livestock. Staring at the tank now and working on a plumbing solution.

I have a glass sump and not up to drilling my first tank, so all pumps will be submersible at this point.

On the pump, I have the mag 12, reluctant to start off with this based on all the negative comments. Preference would be 1 pump for 3 returns, but the largest Eheim looks weak in terms of flow.

 

[Sk8r]

I ran a mag 9.5 in a very nasty, bad undersized sump and it ran flawlessly: they're easy to service, not too hot---all you need do is change out the impeller blade; I like them. Never had to repair it. If it needs cleaning, run it in a bucket of 50% ro/di and 50% white vinegar and it will clean inside and out.

 

[VegasJay]

Thank Sk8R. I'll give the Mag a try and start the piping.