Planning a 240g tank upgrade - Need some guidance

J

jezzeaepi

New member
My 120 recently busted a seal at the bottom of the tank, and it ended up being a total loss as far as the tank and stand go. The stand is what caused the tank to to fail, and the tank had a very complicated construction(6 piece multi-layer bottom) that I do not wish(trust) to repair myself. My new goal is getting a ~240 in place, and plumbing/wiring my equipment to a fish room located behind the tank. I wanted to pick the brains of the experienced folk on this form so I can avoid some first timer mistakes, try to minimize my costs, and maximize durability.

Display tank and stand:
My last tank lasted me 10 years before the leak, and I want this one to last even longer. Where I failed this time is that my wooden tank stand warped and put uneven pressure on the tank(elos 120XL), causing a bottom seal to fail. This next time around I want to build it to last longer. I am very interested in going with a steel stand this time unless folks have some feedback to convince me otherwise. I am also curious as to what tank/stand manufacturers people recommend for "long term" tanks, and if they have warranties to match. My current manufacturer I am looking at is Planet Aquariums for a 6foot by 25 inch tall by 30 inch deep starphire). They only offer a 5 year warranty though. Do other companies offer longer warranties, or 5 fairly standard?

Also, the pricing for a steel stand from them was a little expensive. What could I reasonably expect to pay for a high quality steel stand for a 240G aquarium? I am considering getting a few bids from some local fabricators to compare. Are there any good threads with "how to build a steel stand" so I can give those fabricators an idea of what I am looking for?

Electrical

My previous tanks have had a bit of a "wire octopus" thing going on. Id like to get a dedicated circuit + a much cleaner wire installation. Any good resources to show how to DIY this at a reasonable price? Does anyone have a rough estimate of what it costs to wire a new circuit to a fuse box?

Fish room
Ive never built out a fish room before, and this is probably where I have the most questions. Any good resources I can look at for this? I want to make sure I have considered everything before I start putting holes in walls, ripping out carpet, etc. Also looking for good ways to cleanly run the plumbing and electrical wires from the tank to the fish room.

Thank you for your time and consideration. Looking forward to a successful build to get me back up and running.
 
Fish room info. For a fish room, bigger is better. A lot of what you want to know depends on where your tank is and where the tank room is. For electrical ideas you might search these types of forums for electrical and/or equipment cabinets. Putting a new breaker in the box is not very expensive provided it is not already maxed out. Cost to run wires depends on how far they need to go and what sort of house construction you have (foundation, attic, walls, 1 story, 2 story ect...)
 
Think through your fish room for the future. We took the longest time of our build planning the fish room for growth and so thankful we did.

The only regret we have with our fishroom is how we laid the flooring. We laid linoleum flooring due to ease of clean up and didn't want to mess with tile for this room. I wish we would have went up the walls 4-6" for any floods (major or minor) that occur. We could've made it look good, but we laid it normal.

A sink is an absolute must in our fish room! There's some great threads on here of "œlet's see your fish room" I believe. Lots of good ideas!


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Thank you for your feedback on the electrical and fish room aspects. Ill research both of those threads over the weekend.

Anyone have any comments regarding the tank and stand?
 
Square steel tube makes a great stand. It needs to be flat after welding which is the hardest part. A good fabricator can make that happen. Unless you have a powder coater who understands the needs for a saltwater environment paint is a better approach for coating the steel. The stands are expensive but shipping one would cost a lot. Id definitely consider a local shop. Steel will still bend so the floor needs to be up to snuff and the stand properly shimmed just like a wood stand.

Make sure you plan for the extra humidity.
 
tkeracer619 said:
Make sure you plan for the extra humidity.
Click to expand...

im planning an 8 footer. you make a good point about the humidity, i am going with a humidistat hooked up to an exhaust fan. something the original poster could possibly look into as a way to combat the extra humidity...
 
The length of the tank warranty is not that critical - If there is a defect in the build quality of the tank -it will usually fail pretty quickly (less than 12 months). Once the water goes into the tank - the pressure on the seams never changes. If there is a point of failure it will start pretty quickly and just keep going.

Recently replaced a tank for a friend in while the silicone adhesive went bad. Happened within 8 months of tank going wet.

After 12 months a tank failure is going to be the cause of something other than the tank build - and then the tank builder is going to blame the stand and an uneven surface.

-----------------

For your electrical - A dedicated circuit sounds great - so when you pop your microwave popcorn while your tanks is running at full blast you don't pop a circuit.

But think of tank circuits like govt spending. Why buy one when you can get 2 for 3x the price.

With a 240g tank - your investment in livestock will be pretty substantial. The point of a dedicated circuit is to get the tank enough power to not be affected by other things in the house. But you also need to protect the tank from itself. You want a couple of dedicated circuits. You want your return pump on one circuit and your intank flow pumps on a different circuit - That way if something pops, of a GFI pops (or goes bad) - one circuit doesn't shut down your entire tank.

Put in way more outlets than you think you would ever need. Even with an Apex and EB8's if you are going to control alot of gadgets you are still going to need outlets for the EB8's in more locations.

-------------------

The comment about powder coating requiring skill to apply is true. You need a company that preps the metal properly and uses the correct material. There are different grades of powder coating. There is a product that is used on the interior of oil pipelines. It requires multiple applications. But I have some tanks with stands and top frames that are over 15 years old and no issues with the powdercoating.

If you can't find the right powdercoater - then get a steel stand and take it to a truck place and have it covered in Rhino-liner.

-----------------------------------------

If you are building a fish room... Waterproof the floor as if you are building a shower and put a drain in the floor. If you have the ability make the drain in the floor empty into a cistern with the drain above the bottom. This way all the bits of gravel, coral, carbon that goes into the floor drain goes to the cistern and only the liquid flows out the drain. You pull the drain cover and clean every so often.

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Best advice is sit down and draw up the ultimate fish room. What you would build with absolutely no budget considerations and to have every piece of aquarium crap you ever dreamed of. Then put the electrical, lighting, plumbing in place to one day accomplish all that you dream of. If you never use it, the cost to install some extra pipe now is nothing compared to 2 years from now.


Dave B
 
Use pressure treated, and overbuild the stand. It'll last you just as long without issues and you can build it to be level even with an uneven floor. Use styrofoam between stand and tank.
I have a 330g on wood stand, I have 12 legs total, and while I am not sure how or why something would warp at this point, even if it did there is a lot of backup.

Steel stands are expensive, and almost never flat, and you'll have to shim it to be level. Rust is always an issue.


Electrical, sometimes it's best to hire a professional for this. As an electrician I have fixed some really scary stuff that homeowners have done, and replaced a few panels after the home owner wiring caught fire.
But if you have the know how, then I'd double up on the circuits for sure. I ran 6 circuits to my fish room. One return pump on one, the other return on another. Half the powerheads on one, and the other half the powerheads on the other. One heater on one, and the other heater on another. Lights are split up on the circuits, skimmer is with one of the return pumps. Tried to make it so that a single failure doesn't take the tank down.


Best advice, go as big as you can. and then a little bigger, for the display, the sump, and the room. I wish i had went at least 400g instead of 330, and I wish my sump was was 96 x 36 x 30 tall instead of only 72 long. And I wish my fish room was even a foot wider.
 
If possible, position your fish room directly underneath your DT. This minimizes plumbing and electrical logistics.

Plan for a flood in your fish room. I don't mean expect one to happen, I mean plan for it in case it does. A floor drain is the best option. If you can't do that, then make a dam around the edge of the room (pressure treated lumbar and silicon caulk work well, and don't forget to raise your door above the dam) and add a moisture activated sump pump. If you have a floor drain, a sewage pump is superior to a sump pump since it can handle small amounts of mass in addition to the water.

Lots of power outlets. A harbor freight 4 foot power strip with 12 outlets works nicely. I have two.

Plan how you will control the humidity. A vent fan is great, but unless you seal the room off, humidity will still escape into adjoining rooms. I know this from experience. Put a lid on your sump as your first line of defense to humidity.

A water source is very helpful for auto topoffs and waterchanges.

Use greenboard as a minimum. Even then, it's a good idea to apply a primer that seals the greenboard (e.g., Kilz PVA primer) and a waterproof or at least semi-gloss paint on top of that.

Depending on how messy you are, consider sealing the floor against spills.

And layout where everything will go: your sump, topoff reservoir, QT tanks, extra salt, test kits, frag tanks, RO filter, reactors, etc. Make sure you have adequate room to move and work.
 
Lots of good advice here.

When I built my tiny sump room... I did these:
1 floor drain
2 Laundry sink
3: 2 high quality quiet ceiling exhaust on humidistat control.
4: obviously water supply
5: thick rubber floor with 6" up the wall.
6: water proof wall and ceiling paint
7: 4 circuit, some on gfci some Not.
8: I have an 8" 240g... I made the rocketengineer's wood stand, over did it a little.
9: watch out for the depth of the tank.... deeper is more difficult to reach and clean. Mine I kept 24"
10: I built this on the ground level room, actually away from my main living house.... even if it fails and floods my house is safe.
11: definitely get a controller
12: I installed separate window a/c, so that the humidity doesn't touch my house cac systems. And when needed I can just buy another one for 2-300$. And not worry about $$$$ for main cac that I can't change myself.
13: plan ahead. If using new rocks Keep the rocks already in brute cans with water ....longer the better.... I also used lanthanum during curing process.

If you have questions, let me know.


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Appreciate the comments. You have given me a lot to think about. So much so that I am now going to put a lot more time in to planning the fish room, lol. I think I am going to split this in to two separate projects.

First project: Get my tank and stand ordered so I can set it up as soon possible using my existing sump underneath the stand. I'll use all of my existing equipment from my 120. It will be slightly undersized for the 240, buts that's ok. Really I just want to get things back up and going quickly so I can "sit back and wait" for things to stabilize. I have a friend who is watching some of my favorite corals right now, and Id like to be able to take them back sooner than later. He offered to take care of them all when the last tank sprung a leak, and I'd like to relieve him of that burden.

Second project:
Plan out the fish room from top to bottom. It sounds like the last thing I want to do is rush in to it and not do everything I'd like because it will be a lot more difficult to change down the road(particularly things like redoing the floor, knocking out a small wall, etc).

What resources did you use for planning out your fish room? I'm definitely a novice when it comes to home remodeling. I could probably figure it out if I watched a bunch of you tube videos, but I'm not sure where to start. The alternative is to hire someone, but that will get expensive, and ID rather put that money in to the tank equipment and live stock. I will likely hire out the electrical part though.

Right now I have a decent sized closet in my office that I was planning on using as my fish "room" since it is directly behind the display. I don't have water available there, but I do think I can run a long RODI line for filling my top off and SW mixing can. I do have electricity, but Ill have to get additional circuits put in and wired. I also have one outside wall, so I can install a vent to control humidity. Then its just a matter of knocking out a small wall(non load bearing), redoing the floor, putting in some drywall, mounting a door, and making a hole through the wall to run plumbing and wires to the display. Not super difficult conceptually, but again, I am a novice...
 
awais98 said:
Lots of good advice here.

13: plan ahead. If using new rocks Keep the rocks already in brute cans with water ....longer the better.... I also used lanthanum during curing process.
Click to expand...


Still trying to decide what I want to do for this part. I created a separate thread here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2662456
Essentially, I have some LR that Ive been using for 10+ years. It has plenty of good stuff on it(sponges, mini serpent stars, multi colored coralline, other microfauna), but also some ugly stuff. Nothing that will kill your coral, but some will bother it(vermetids, small hydroids), and other stuff just looks ugly(random algae that will always return under the right conditions). On the one hand it would be nice to start with a clean slate. On the other hand, it feels crazy to kill off rock with 10 years of growth.
 
jezzeaepi said:
Appreciate the comments. You have given me a lot to think about. So much so that I am now going to put a lot more time in to planning the fish room, lol. I think I am going to split this in to two separate projects.



First project: Get my tank and stand ordered so I can set it up as soon possible using my existing sump underneath the stand. I'll use all of my existing equipment from my 120. It will be slightly undersized for the 240, buts that's ok. Really I just want to get things back up and going quickly so I can "sit back and wait" for things to stabilize. I have a friend who is watching some of my favorite corals right now, and Id like to be able to take them back sooner than later. He offered to take care of them all when the last tank sprung a leak, and I'd like to relieve him of that burden.



Second project:

Plan out the fish room from top to bottom. It sounds like the last thing I want to do is rush in to it and not do everything I'd like because it will be a lot more difficult to change down the road(particularly things like redoing the floor, knocking out a small wall, etc).



What resources did you use for planning out your fish room? I'm definitely a novice when it comes to home remodeling. I could probably figure it out if I watched a bunch of you tube videos, but I'm not sure where to start. The alternative is to hire someone, but that will get expensive, and ID rather put that money in to the tank equipment and live stock. I will likely hire out the electrical part though.



Right now I have a decent sized closet in my office that I was planning on using as my fish "room" since it is directly behind the display. I don't have water available there, but I do think I can run a long RODI line for filling my top off and SW mixing can. I do have electricity, but Ill have to get additional circuits put in and wired. I also have one outside wall, so I can install a vent to control humidity. Then its just a matter of knocking out a small wall(non load bearing), redoing the floor, putting in some drywall, mounting a door, and making a hole through the wall to run plumbing and wires to the display. Not super difficult conceptually, but again, I am a novice...
Click to expand...



Well,
Start with the thing you can't change once you have the tank and stand.... the floor.
Come up with a plan to make it water sealed.
Where would the Ayer go if 240g of it floods the floor?
Seriously consider a floor drain..... I had gotten a plumber to dig and all.... in my built it was the most important step. It was expensive but it was needed.
While with the plumber ... get a real water supply line there... complete with a small water heater and sink... you will thank me.... fish room with out a sink and faucet to wash and clean stuff ......won't work long term.....
Got a professional plumber as it must be to code and it ties into the house plumbing so not fooling around.

Next do the flooring.... see what you want.... I got thick rubber mat rolls and sealed the floor and 6" high all around the wall.... I know if I ever have a flood.... my house is safe.


Plan the electricals...... again get a professional as you want it to code.....
Then plan the holes in the walls.....
Then exhaust holes....
Plan if you want to use the house central ac...... it will rust very fast..... isolate it.... if you want.
You have an external wall..... see if a window ac will be feasible.....
Then map the locations of everything in the sump room and the Dt room.....
map out plumbing and external electrical runs slots etc... panel for controls.....
then you can start painting...... industrial acrylic from Sherwin Williams....

Took me 1.5 years to plan and execute all that... working full time.... and then came the stand and dt....


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As mentioned a couple of times above, the #1 design factor should be how to contain a flood. Nothing makes a spouse madder than a flood. Trust me...

Weird stuff happens in this hobby when water is involved. I had my RO canister crack and spray water all over.

Oh, yeah, some kind of a water sensor on the floor is a VERY good idea. There are lots of models, just get a loud one. If you can afford the kind that sends you a text, do it.

Electrical really isn't that difficult. You just need to have a logical mind for how you run the wires to connect all the outlets.
Step 1: install the outlet boxes where you want them.
Step 1.5: decide how many circuits you want. I usually recommend that the room lights are on a different circuit than the outlets. It's ok to have one circuit for everything else. If you really want to get fancy, put your return pump on a dedicated circuit to isolate it.
Step 2: run the wiring connecting all the outlet boxes and the circuit breaker box. You can map it out on paper if it helps. It should be fairly obvious from where you put the outlet boxes. Run the wire from the circuit breaker to the closest outlet box. From there to the next closest. etc. Generally you'll go around the room either clockwise or counterclockwise.
Step 3: hook up the wiring to each outlet

You'll save several hundreds of dollars doing it yourself. It's surprisingly easy.
 
Hal said:
As mentioned a couple of times above, the #1 design factor should be how to contain a flood. Nothing makes a spouse madder than a flood. Trust me...

Weird stuff happens in this hobby when water is involved. I had my RO canister crack and spray water all over.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is what I just dealt with =\ My 120 sprung a leak in the night, and I woke up with water all over the carpet. Luckily I had "only" lost about 20 gallons at that point, and was able to drain the tank and save all of the inhabitants. There is nothing I can do about making the living room "flood proof" so I am trying to get the strongest stand and the best tank. I shelled out for the Elos tank last time, and it probably would have stood the test of time had the stand not warped, leaving an air pocket under the middle.

My main issue for drainage in the fish room is that there is nothing on that side of the house that is hooked up to sewer line. The closest point is the shower drain which is through two walls, and about 30 feet away. I imagine it would be quite costly to start ripping out the concrete foundation/carpet/walls to run a drainage line that connects with the sewer. I may be able to install an emergency drain to "no where" if that is a possible option. That still wouldn't help me for a sink though.
 
You can install an above grade sump pump. They will turn on when they detect 1/4 inch of water. Then just plumb it up into the ceiling and over to a drain somewhere. Just calculate the head pressure.
 
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