Planning for a Large system (long)

[SNTLewis]

Ok, LTGs (large tank gurus) here I am putting myself at the mercy of the group.

First admission, my tank is NOT in progress as I want to plan this carefully. It is one thing to have problems with a 90+ system (been there) and problems with 180+ systems (don't want to go there).

Second admission, I have 10+ years of experience with small mixed (mostly LPS) systems.

Third admission, like everyone else $$$ doesn't grow on trees.

Fourth admission, wife has her house and she is ready to talk about a large system. After a quick looksee on here, I'm not really sure my system would be a large system, even though it would be bigger than 180 and fits the "large" description.

Given the above admissions, I want to tread carefully and thoughtfully into the world of a large display system. A wise person counts the cost before...

And now for a warning! I may find the $$$ too high, time frame not doable or just plain chicken out. In either case, the planning process would have saved me $$$ and major pains. If I go down this route, the tank would be permanent (not quite an in wall but look like it), and not something that I will get much of a second chance. The phrase "I should have done that" won't play well.

So a big thank you for reading this far and considering the following...

The general "design" parameters.

1) utilize a 250DD or similar sized tank for display (5' long, 3' wide, 2' deep).
2) start with 3x400 MH plus supplemental (undecided about the type of supplemental)
3) preferably closed loop as I hate the circulation pumps sticking around in the tank.
4) big problem, no real "support room" available
5) tank would be in place long enough to be considered "mature." My current system has been in place for almost 9 years without "major incident/redesign."

And finally, the questions I have with regards to long-term large systems. This tank will be in place 10+ years.

1) how do LTGs deal with the additional humidity issues?

2) how do LTGs deal with the "mature tank" issues.

3) what type of "flooring" do LTGs (again not an in-wall) use underneath the system? Direct on subfloor? Currently considering 12" porcelain tile, but not really sure that is a good idea? Concerned about the eventual water spillage.

4) husbandry differences between small systems and large systems

 

[dave.m]

Save yourself some money and go LED instead of MH.

For humidity you definitely need to plan for direct extraction of humid air to the great outdoors, both from the above tank and the sump, as well as any additional tanks like quarantines, refugium, frag tanks, etc.; usually a bathroom-type fan with dedicated humidistat. Plan to draw air out of the whole cabinet, not just above the tank.

What are you expecting as far as "mature tank syndrome"?

I would definitely NOT go directly to the subfloor. You will want something dead level in all directions, strong enough for the weight of your total tank installation, and something that you can seal water-tight to ensure there are no rot issues from repeated "incidents". Porcelain tiles are an excellent choice if they are placed well and level. You can seal the grout after everything is cured.

Husbandry depends on what you put in and how much. It's hard to restrain oneself, but most people realize after a while that the less you put in the better everything thrives and the easier it is to maintain the display.

These are just my own thoughts and opinions. There are lots of experienced people here who can give you good alternate ideas.

Dave.M

 

[SNTLewis]

long term nitrate/phosphate issues..

long term nitrate/phosphate issues..

By "mature tank" I am refering to long term issues with nitrates and phosphates. I realize they build up slowly especially from over feeding. I have been running a fuge with about 3.5 inches of sand in the fuge and macro to keep the nitrates in check on my current 9 year system. I'm not against other nitrate reduction methods, just don't want to create the problems in the first place.

My long term issue is related to food consumption/detrius. I have my own RO/DI system and keep it tuned for input water temp as well as filter replacement.

Next question is related to above... I definitely do not like the bare-bottom look so a substrate is needed, depth is quite open as well as composition oolitic or cc.

Is the substrate issue really important? Do LTG 'stir' their substrate on a regular basis or utilize critters?

 

[dave.m]

Not sure what you need a Lieutenant General (LTG) for in your tank, but what you do need is a sand clean-up crew. This includes sand-stirring and tunneling fish like diamond gobies, snails that go beneath the surface like cerith and nassarius, detrivor machines like conchs (which are way cool BTW), and sea stars that will keep both the sand and rock surfaces clean.

Good quality live sand and rock should bring a host of beneficial things like bristle worms, amphipods, copepods, spaghetti worms, chitons, etc.

Get emerald crabs for bubble algae. Some people like hermit crabs because their movements are very entertaining. I don't find them all that great at keeping the sand clean but they are great at cleaning up dead fish in a hurry. Hermits can also do a number on your snail population if there aren't sufficient empty shells available for them to molt and switch into.

A dirty substrate is definitely a serious concern if you don't keep a lively clean-up crew employed.

Dave.M

 

[SNTLewis]

LTG- Large Tank Guru.

I run a system similar to that on my current setup and agree the hermits can really go after escargo :uzi:

Just want to make sure that 10 years down the road, I won't be facing a major teardown of the system.

 

[dave.m]

Clean-up crews need to be replenished ongoing. They don't last all that long, unfortunately.

Dave.M

 

[SNTLewis]

sliding a bit OT but about the only long term residents in my current system in the "clean up" critter group is the Nassarius snails. I'm able to raise them in the tank.

So, I usually get "large" hermits that in theory don't want the smaller shells.

Now to bring this back around.

There are no additional issues with keeping a large system in place for 10+ years with careful husbandry and watching for slow system buildup of nitrates and phosphates? This is similar to my current system.

What about long term effects on septic systems (due to water change disposal) and electrical wiring degradation? I just don't want to create an expensive time bomb.

It is already an expensive outlay up front...

 

[dave.m]

Ah! You are referring to incremental sludge accumulation. Yes, you will need to periodically vacuum your sand bed. It's hard to give a definite timeline as this will be affected by how much you feed/overfeed, how deep the sand bed is, how active your clean-up crew is, etc. The easiest way to keep tabs on this is to use a gravel vacuum every time you do a large water change.

e.g. Let's say you do a 10% water change every month. Let's say that in the course of making this change you only manage to vacuum a quarter of the sand bed. Keep tabs on where you started and finished vacuuming each month. This ensures that your whole sand bed gets cleaned out a couple of times per year, which should be sufficient.

Another thing you can do is only put the sand where it will be seen, i.e. if only the front and sides are visible that's the only place you need put sand. If the sand drifts/spreads over time you can easily blow it back with a small pump or just the wave of your hand in the tank. Obviously your rockwork design will determine if this is possible in your situation.

Dave.M