Planning my DIY tank (Surge, rock face, self levelling sump)

[reenact12321]

I'm moving into my first home and anxiously awaiting the moving day for my 2 year old 40 Breeder system. It's been a good experience and I'm really tempted to take the "if ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to its filtration and general configuration.

However, I have this whole unfinished basement to play with and as I am a bachelor, essentially the sky and my pocket book are the limit.

I've been reading a lot about surge tanks and also this very interesting article about emulating the natural biomes of the reef rather than the "sea gardens" we normally construct.

My concept would be to have a tank with a linear layout from forereef to flats, to patch reef. With heavy surge coming over the rock wall and creating lots of turbulence on the flats, but dispersing by the time it reaches the back of the tank (obviously the odd power head would be employed in the back to supplement water movement to appropriate levels.

The flats down to the patch would allow me to keep high flow, high light corals on this higher rock channel, and the patch reef would allow for more softies, sand bed items and lower light corals as well as a large bowl for fish. Replicating the lagoon area even in another tank sounds like a self-defeating measure as its really the stagnant compost part of the reef and would be rather dense with cyano and other things you would not want even connected to your system.

The general execution of this concept would rely on constructing a basic rock structure in the tank that live rock would then sit on, rather than just piling live rock into a giant, unstable mound. I'm looking for suggestions of something that will hold up to saltwater but is shapeable enough I can avoid it looking like I just poured a bunch of cement into the tank.

Also, this will mean a substantial loss of volume at the front of the tank, so would a downward facing L and custom build be more adventageous in terms of wasted space?

 

[reenact12321]

This is what I'm thinking geometrically (forgive my failure as a sketchup artist)

The idea would be that the surge pounds that front area and rushes through the channels behind and slows as it reaches that back area.

My big concern with any surge is how to keep a stable Sump/ATO environment.

I was thinking you could create a sump that draws with a pump (parallel rather than drain) and pumps back in, and have an overflow tank that feeds the surge bucket and have a float based ATO instead of a digital one like I have now.

 

[JZinCO]

Sounds really interesting. I ca offer a few thoughts based on my own prior musings. 1) Would you consider a wave maker in lieu of a surge device? At least it would be easier to set up and would not have a sump water level concern.
2) For your rock work..there are definitely ways to make a base layer secure, including using adhesives. Alternatively, maybe pond foam secured to the bottom of the tank with a bunch of short acrylic rods sticking out in order to keep rocks stable. ON the vertical face, I would almost certainly recommend using foam to make a rock wall, unless you don't mind a deep rock wall, at which point you can just stack.
3) This is just for simplicity, and may even work out to be cheaper: Instead of a custom drop-off tank, have a typical rectangular tank but create a false floor.

 

[Rilelen]

Love the concept, following along.

 

[reenact12321]

Here's my idea for a Surge Tank setup above (20 Gallon High) I shrunk my model to be a realistic size, (2' by 7') as the original proportions would have been rather unrealistic (4' by 14') to maintain.

BTW Sketchup is not real friendly for laying out plumbing.

 

[laverda]

I was thinking you could create a sump that draws with a pump (parallel rather than drain) and pumps back in, and have an overflow tank that feeds the surge bucket and have a float based ATO instead of a digital one like I have now

I really like the idea. Definatly gives the opportunity to do some different things.

Trying to use two pumps is asking for trouble. Depending on the size of you surge and sump, you really do not need to do anything special. I have a 300 with a wave maker and while the amount of water going into the overflow varies the water level in the return section does not change noticably. I only have one set of baffles in my sum, however my refugium/return section is larger the most.

 

[laverda]

Here's my idea for a Surge Tank setup above (20 Gallon High) I shrunk my model to be a realistic size, (2' by 7') as the original proportions would have been rather unrealistic (4' by 14') to maintain.

I wave box could be very effective and perhaps more efficient if you do not mind to being in the front panel. You can make them pretty easily. There are three types. 1. A box with a variable speed pump(Tunze). 2. A plunger that raises and lowers in to the water. Speed and amplitude could both be varried. 3. A panel hinged at the bottom of the tank that is moved back and fourth at the top. I have seen all but the Tunze style used at public aquariums.

 

[laverda]

Your idea really got me thinking. You could go a little further and have it extend to a sandy beach with mangroves behind that. If you used a long standard tank and built an insert you might even be able to hid the way box under the sand bed. So tempting to build one my self.

Rock can be glued together with pond foam, 2 part epoxy for wet applications, portland cement, or with specialized mixes from Marco Rocks and others.
Extra rock stacked would be more like a real reef, provide hiding places for fish and natural filtration.

 

[reenact12321]

Wouldn't hiding the wave box way over on the sandy side be counter-productive to having the waves hit the shoreline? I guess the bobbing of a wavemaker doesn't matter the location as much as with the surge.

I haven't decided if I'm going to build a fish room with walls or have this open to a more "crazy laboratory" setup. I have a very large unfinished basement to work with (and eventually will have to jif-set to level bumpy cement before doing any of this)

I saw the guy who started a tidal tank (actually draining and exposing coral for a period) do the plunger style wave maker, can you think of any practical examples of people who have made/sell these? I'm interested in how they compare to the rush of a surge and the rhythmic bobbing of a wavebox.

 

[Snug Tanks]

How and of what material are you going to make the base?

 

[reenact12321]

Some folks suggested a type of carveable/paintable foam and I think from a weight standpoint, the rock face portion would have to be something light like that, maybe some pieces of real rock pinned in, I would probalby transition to a thin layer with more live rock in place as I moved back across the tank, just to tie it together.

 

[karimwassef]

Why not go with an actuated surge valve?

Here's my build - some similar concepts and philosophy

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2589632&page=18

I hide my surge in the room behind the tank

 

[laverda]

Wouldn't hiding the wave box way over on the sandy side be counter-productive to having the waves hit the shoreline? I guess the bobbing of a wavemaker doesn't matter the location as much as with the surge.

I haven't decided if I'm going to build a fish room with walls or have this open to a more "crazy laboratory" setup. I have a very large unfinished basement to work with (and eventually will have to jif-set to level bumpy cement before doing any of this)

I saw the guy who started a tidal tank (actually draining and exposing coral for a period) do the plunger style wave maker, can you think of any practical examples of people who have made/sell these? I'm interested in how they compare to the rush of a surge and the rhythmic bobbing of a wavebox.

 

[laverda]

The reason I would consider such a set up would be to conceal the wave box and not take up display real estate. The plunger could be hidden under an island of rock or sand for access, with just the operating rod coming up through it. The wave could be directed to come out under the rock in the deep part and then to come up and over. Wave boxes work best in longer tanks compared to a cube. They also work best at the end of a tank, as opposed to in the center.
I would make a small mock up first. Functionally it should work about the same as a wave box at the end of the tank if the opening to the box is at the end.
___|____
| ### |
| . \/ . |________
|________________
In my crude drawing above imagine this is the wave box hidden under your rock and sand. The ### being the plunger, with the water entering and exiting at the far right. I would make the opening wide , but not very tall. You could also build it using a wave pump or two.

I like the over all concept I may see if I can find a inexpensive long tank to build one outside. I have some smaller tanks I may have to experiment on first. The only rectangular one is only 10 gallons. Should be good for proof of concept on the above wave box idea.

 

[reenact12321]

Karim- I just started delving into your design and it looks fascinating. My budget does not begin to approach something so ambitious (40+ powerheads alone) , but I look forward to following its evolution.

The reason I would rather build an L-shaped tank instead of follow something similar to yours is a personal sense of how much control I want of the space. It would bother me to no end to not be able to get into that dark zone and retrieve/clean/remove something or not know what is in there.

 

[reenact12321]

Laverda, I follow you now. I think that is a really interesting idea and a model would be interesting to see.

My design is pie in the sky at this point, but I really am liking the plunger idea as opposed to the ever-present toilet flush a surge would probably put off.

I have lots of things to do on my house before I can get serious about this, (just getting my 40B reef moved will be stressful enough) but some cheap-scale models could be a lot of fun and eye-opening as to how a concept might best be implemented.

 

[karimwassef]

The L shape is great. I also have a surge tank that feeds all my returns (not just surge). I've also added a secondary surge and tide system by actuating my overflow.