Playing around
- Thread starter maxalmon
- Start date
TitusvileSurfer
New member
I see particles in the water but I don't see noise...even in the darkest of regions. Of course I could be confusing the two but I doubt it. Your ISO was only 500 and on a D700 you shouldn't be able to see it anyway. The image looks sharp with interesting lighting and I would be happy with it.
maxalmon
New member
Just curious Titus, what settings would you have shot this at?
I'm still venturing into the manual areana, but shot this in P mode.
Guess I should have been more precise, wasn't the grain that's bothering me, just that for some reason the image just doesn't look "right" colors are washed, can't get the bottomhalf of the image into focus. If I adjust the fstop for more DOF, then I have issues with the xenia blurr.
FTS are my goal this month, I thought macro was hard, this is a whole new learning curve
I'm still venturing into the manual areana, but shot this in P mode.
Guess I should have been more precise, wasn't the grain that's bothering me, just that for some reason the image just doesn't look "right" colors are washed, can't get the bottomhalf of the image into focus. If I adjust the fstop for more DOF, then I have issues with the xenia blurr.
FTS are my goal this month, I thought macro was hard, this is a whole new learning curve
vitaldefect
New member
nice shot 
try an aperture of 2.8. that will allow more light into the photo which will allow you to use an even faster shutter speed in order to catch the xenia in mid pulse.
since your apature was at like 5.6 and shutter speed was like 1/125 sec
let me know if that helps
good luck and happy shooting
try an aperture of 2.8. that will allow more light into the photo which will allow you to use an even faster shutter speed in order to catch the xenia in mid pulse.
since your apature was at like 5.6 and shutter speed was like 1/125 sec
let me know if that helps
good luck and happy shooting
vitaldefect001
New member
replay on this account if u want
Recty
New member
He wont want to go with 2.8 as that will give him even less DOF.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14039320#post14039320 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vitaldefect
nice shot
try an aperture of 2.8. that will allow more light into the photo which will allow you to use an even faster shutter speed in order to catch the xenia in mid pulse.
since your apature was at like 5.6 and shutter speed was like 1/125 sec
let me know if that helps
good luck and happy shooting
dendronepthya
Premium Member
I'd try to set the shutter speed to something like 1/250 and bump up the ISO to about 1600.
vitaldefect001
New member
very true. but he said he was trying for the pulsing xenia. so i figured he would be able to focus down on that a little more 
TitusvileSurfer
New member
Well I can't outright tell you what settings I would use. I would have to have my camera and tripod in your house looking at your tank under your lights. After all that, the settings I would use with my camera would still be a little different than what I would use with yours. I can however help you find out for yourself what I would do in your shoes. That D700 you have is some fancy piece of equipment, a true DSLR in the greatest sense of the word, so thankfully we have a lot to work with. This should be easy as pie.
You are looking for wide depth of field. There are several factors which influence it:
Focal length: 25mm has more DOF than 65mm
Distance from subject: 10 feet has more DOF than 5 feet
Aperture: f/12 has more DOF than f/4
Exposure is a triangle:
Shutter Speed (motion blur)
Aperture (DOF)
ISO (sensitivity to light)
I always recommend starting at ISO 100. Decide what your priority is between shutter speed (movement) or Aperture (DOF). In this case you have specific requirements for both, which makes full manual mode the only mode to go with. If you can't achieve the desired Shutter Speed and Aperture with ISO 100, then and only then do you move the ISO up.
Your D700 is VERY helpful here. I mean my god, you can go all the way out to ISO 25,600 if you REALLY have to. I'm not saying I would ever use ISO 25,600 with a D700 in real life...but the option is there. Compared to most other cameras on the market, the noise levels at lower ISO speeds are exceptional with this one. The D700 fairs better than the origional 5D in this area, which is no feat to scoff at.
My point is, from what I have seen on paper, I would use ISO 800 with a D700 without a 2nd thought. I would probably use ISO 1600 very liberally. You have one heck of a piece of equipment and you should take advantage of it.
Now you can set your ISO to 25,600 and your aperture to f/32 and take pictures like a newbie. You spent a lot of money on this stuff and you should make it sing like the well tuned instrument it is. If you want to squeeze every bit of perfection out of this camera (using both the lowest ISO speed and widest aperture you can get away with), check out this website and use it like I tell you:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
1) Figure out the exact range of DOF you need (the width of your tank front to back)
2) Measure how far away you will be when shooting *from the focus point in your tank* .
3) Input the distance from the focus point into the website
4) Input the focal length of your lens into the website (65mm)
5) Adjust the aperture on the website until the DOF range matches your tank from the front of the glass to the back wall...then go a little bit more for good measure
*When you focus on a subject, DOF isn't an even half and half split. 1/3 of the DOF will be between the lens and the point focused on. 2/3 of the DOF will be behind the point focused on.*
Basically you need to look at your tank from the side. Measure the depth of the tank in 3rds. At the 1/3 mark, find something to focus on such as a patch of zoas or whatever is in that region of the tank.
Now you know what aperture you need to have every organism in the tank in crisp focus from the measurements you just took. Set your camera to "M" mode and select that aperture. Lets say it came out to f/10. You know what shutter speed you need to freeze the corals and/or fish from trial and error. Lets say it came out to 1/125.
So your aperture is f/10 and your shutter speed is 1/125 but your exposure meter and live histogram are screaming that the picture is too dark. Now (notice this is the last step) bump up your ISO speed to wherever it has to be in order to make everything kosher. If you have to go all the way to ISO 3200, try it and see how it goes. If the image is too grainy for your taste, sacrifice some shutter speed and patiently wait for everything to stop moving so fast. You could play with your distance from the focus point and/or focal length of the lens in order to use a wider aperture without changing the DOF as another method of bringing the ISO down. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Be creative.
Lets see your results!! =)
You are looking for wide depth of field. There are several factors which influence it:
Focal length: 25mm has more DOF than 65mm
Distance from subject: 10 feet has more DOF than 5 feet
Aperture: f/12 has more DOF than f/4
Exposure is a triangle:
Shutter Speed (motion blur)
Aperture (DOF)
ISO (sensitivity to light)
I always recommend starting at ISO 100. Decide what your priority is between shutter speed (movement) or Aperture (DOF). In this case you have specific requirements for both, which makes full manual mode the only mode to go with. If you can't achieve the desired Shutter Speed and Aperture with ISO 100, then and only then do you move the ISO up.
Your D700 is VERY helpful here. I mean my god, you can go all the way out to ISO 25,600 if you REALLY have to. I'm not saying I would ever use ISO 25,600 with a D700 in real life...but the option is there. Compared to most other cameras on the market, the noise levels at lower ISO speeds are exceptional with this one. The D700 fairs better than the origional 5D in this area, which is no feat to scoff at.
My point is, from what I have seen on paper, I would use ISO 800 with a D700 without a 2nd thought. I would probably use ISO 1600 very liberally. You have one heck of a piece of equipment and you should take advantage of it.
Now you can set your ISO to 25,600 and your aperture to f/32 and take pictures like a newbie. You spent a lot of money on this stuff and you should make it sing like the well tuned instrument it is. If you want to squeeze every bit of perfection out of this camera (using both the lowest ISO speed and widest aperture you can get away with), check out this website and use it like I tell you:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
1) Figure out the exact range of DOF you need (the width of your tank front to back)
2) Measure how far away you will be when shooting *from the focus point in your tank* .
3) Input the distance from the focus point into the website
4) Input the focal length of your lens into the website (65mm)
5) Adjust the aperture on the website until the DOF range matches your tank from the front of the glass to the back wall...then go a little bit more for good measure
*When you focus on a subject, DOF isn't an even half and half split. 1/3 of the DOF will be between the lens and the point focused on. 2/3 of the DOF will be behind the point focused on.*
Basically you need to look at your tank from the side. Measure the depth of the tank in 3rds. At the 1/3 mark, find something to focus on such as a patch of zoas or whatever is in that region of the tank.
Now you know what aperture you need to have every organism in the tank in crisp focus from the measurements you just took. Set your camera to "M" mode and select that aperture. Lets say it came out to f/10. You know what shutter speed you need to freeze the corals and/or fish from trial and error. Lets say it came out to 1/125.
So your aperture is f/10 and your shutter speed is 1/125 but your exposure meter and live histogram are screaming that the picture is too dark. Now (notice this is the last step) bump up your ISO speed to wherever it has to be in order to make everything kosher. If you have to go all the way to ISO 3200, try it and see how it goes. If the image is too grainy for your taste, sacrifice some shutter speed and patiently wait for everything to stop moving so fast. You could play with your distance from the focus point and/or focal length of the lens in order to use a wider aperture without changing the DOF as another method of bringing the ISO down. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Be creative.
Lets see your results!! =)
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maxalmon
New member
Titus, Thanks!.....I'll spend most of today experimenting with the information you provided and I'll post progress with the settings/images thru the day.
OT...I've played around with the iso from 6400 to 25k and I will admitt that I was stunned with image quality, I'll be taking CS3 & photography classes at the local CC end of Jan
OT...I've played around with the iso from 6400 to 25k and I will admitt that I was stunned with image quality, I'll be taking CS3 & photography classes at the local CC end of Jan
dendronepthya
Premium Member
I've found ISO 6400 remarkably useable on my camera as well. In the past, ISO 1600 was practically useless, but now sensors can really crank up the light sensitivity without too much noise. While I have not experimented with it myself, shooting in RAW and applying noise ninja would probably do wonders for our ISO 6400 shots.
TitusvileSurfer
New member
So what about your tank?! 
TitusvileSurfer
New member
So you did this before you read my little review? Everything looks pretty good to me. Lets check out a 100% crop of the image. If it is a little blurry, especially the xina, than an extra 1/3 or 1/2 stop of shutter speed may work wonders.
TitusvileSurfer
New member
No it should be what the image looks like when viewed at full size.
Squirrel eating some seeds in my back yard
100% crop, showing the image "zoomed in" all the way.
Squirrel eating some seeds in my back yard
100% crop, showing the image "zoomed in" all the way.
maxalmon
New member
These are a series of bracketed images, switched from the Sigma24-70 to the Nikon 105 macro for these images. The only editing was to crop and unsharp 20
iso 1000 f13 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f11 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f10 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f9 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f8 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f7.1 1/125 +3EC
Final image is a 100% crop, focus is way off IMO
iso 1000 f13 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f11 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f10 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f9 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f8 1/125 +3EC
iso 1000 f7.1 1/125 +3EC
Final image is a 100% crop, focus is way off IMO
TitusvileSurfer
New member
You never want to bracket with aperture. bracketing with shutter speed is usually preferred, but when you are already at the minimum needed shutter speed, bracket ISO instead. You should never bracket aperture unless you are testing DOF just to see the real world difference. Using the 100% crop, you can see need for further improvement. I think you are off to a fine start myself though. I also don't understand the "+3EC". If that means exposure compensation, then it should change every frame. It looks like EC is going from -2/3, -1/3, 0, +1/3, +2/3, +1
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